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Pedro Eler


Nov 4, 2010, 5:29 PM

Post #1126 of 1175 (13326 views)
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Re: [almondpunch] Funding rankings [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
@ Pedro, kaybay

I've heard that as well -- that the number of MFA applicants has surged since the economic crisis. But it's a discouraging, insensitive, and purposeless comment for someone to make to a hopeful writer, and I'm sorry to hear it came from a workshop instructor, whose purpose is ultimately to strengthen rather than to destroy confidence. Personally, dwelling too much on the competition just cramps my creativity, and on a communal level I sense that it breeds a subtle paranoia/hysteria on the blogs. Less so on this blog than on the MFA blog.

There are spots for us. Just take heart and write on.



I agree with you that it was a purposeless thing to say. And anyway, I guess that if somene is applying to a Creative Writing MFA just because there aren't other jobs around... then I shouldn't worry about them anyway...


kbritten

e-mail user

Nov 15, 2010, 4:09 PM

Post #1127 of 1175 (13211 views)
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GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, I'm aware that this might be a stupid question, but I need to know!

Some schools require GRE scores to be sent to the graduate school, not the department. However, when sending scores, it specifically asks for which department. It only says to "skip" the page if: "your department is included within the Institution Name or if your recipient is a fellowship sponsor." Do I skip? Do I leave the department blank? I don't want it to go to the wrong place and risk having shell out the $23 to send another report. I know that it would probably go to the right place, but I don't want to f up :)


Pedro Eler


Nov 18, 2010, 7:50 PM

Post #1128 of 1175 (13135 views)
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Re: [kbritten] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Kbritten, I took my GRE today (560 verbal and 630 quantitative... not that great, but who cares about GREs right?). I followed the instructions and always selected the creative writing department. You will be asked to selec the university and then the department, and they all have creative writing, so you just select that... there's no way it can go wrong.

But I have another question for you all. Does Washington University at St Loius REALLY EXISTS?? LOL LOL

I ask this because they NEVER EVER EVER answer to any of my emails. NEVER!! It's shocking! I have no idea how long the statement of purpose is supposed to be and no one answers me. This does not send me a good message about W.U. If I hadn't already selected it for my GRE and TOEFL and prepared most of the application I would choose another university, really, one that cares enough about their students to at least answer emails...


blob


Nov 19, 2010, 2:11 PM

Post #1129 of 1175 (13091 views)
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Re: [Pedro Eler] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

Pedro,

Be careful, go to websites. Some schools specifically request that GRE scores NOT be sent to CW departments and be sent either to the english department or the graduate college.


PhillProvance


Nov 19, 2010, 2:18 PM

Post #1130 of 1175 (13090 views)
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Re: [Pedro Eler] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, guys. I'm new on here, but thought I'd get in on the winter-jitters fun in between slamming through the ad copy here on my desk. I decided to apply to only one program this year, Amherst, because several of my post-college mentors went there and two of them highly suggested I apply immediately.

I guess my main thing is I'm just nervous about whether my app. is strong. I was wondering if I listed my selling points if you guys could tell me what you think and maybe allay my fears that I'm not a contender at all. Thanks in advance. It's out of character for me to ask total strangers for a confidence boost, but the selection process seems so arbitrary and I just need some stranger support to help me visualize my goal and remain positive,

Anyhow, here is the list:

1.) Writing sample (The most important part): All 10 poems have appeared in selective print or online journals and all have made their way into a chapbook put out by an NYC micro-press. The print run was tiny for the chap, but I know all poetry book print runs are tiny, and to my credit the first edition sold out on reserve and a special extra 10 the publisher made either sold at my first reading last week or are reserved by two small magazines that want to use them in a contest. Also, two of the poems were nominated for the Pushcart this year (just nominations, but my first) and one was nominated for both the Pushcart and Best of the Web. A fourth poem from the chap made runner-up in a collegiate competition years ago, but I decided not to include it in the writing sample as it was really one of my earliest poems and, though experimental, it doesn't reflect the stage I'm in now and would have only been a "look at me" inclusion. As for the journals/mags they've appeared in, four seem to have garnered some respect, but none are mainstream (Read: Poetry, Poetry East, etc.), and I have yet to win any awards. The one poem that was nominated multiple times also had two essays written about it, but both were online, and I'm not sure if admissions committees look at online as equal to print.

2.) Professional background: Been out of college for four years (will be five years by the time I would begin my MFA), and during that time have worked for a national magazine, freelanced for a national newspaper and made it to executive editor of an online publisher. Also, I sold a comic series to a medium-size online publisher, which didn't do great, but suffered mostly from a legal change that undermined its advertisers.

3.) Personal Statement: Says why I love poetry, why specifically I want to go to UMass and nowhere else, who I've been reading since college, who my major influences are and what about my work I would like to develop more while working on my MFA.

4.) Personal Statement Supplement: Describes some extenuating circumstances of a fight my senior year that led to my getting the only F on a transcript full of A's and B's.

5.) Application for Diversity Fellowship: I'm epileptic and have Gerstmann syndrome (both of which suck), and I grew up poor in and currently reside pretty meagerly in Appalachia. Also, I'm not independently wealthy (my exec. ed. position pays mostly in a company stake) so I'd need funding to do the MFA.

6.) GRE Verbal was a 700 in college and a 690 this past week. I retook because I didn't know they wanted college writing-style essays the first time through and didn't finish one of the essays, and so had to bring my first written score up from a 3.5.

7.) CV listing most of this stuff, plus some speaking engagements I've had and a critical essay from college that was in the running at a collegiate symposium.

8.) Letters of rec. from three tenured English profs (two are now emeritus) that each had me in class several times.

I think that's about it. So what do you guys think? I know it's not a shoe-in app., but is it strong? I'd hate to think that only people who have won the Pushcart once, have made it into all the national mags already and score 800s on the GRE Verbal get in, but is that how it goes? If so, maybe I will start hitting the GRE book harder right now and work on a new batch to send to the big-name mags now, so I'm more prepared next go-round.


unsaid78


Nov 20, 2010, 10:40 PM

Post #1131 of 1175 (13013 views)
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Re: [PhillProvance] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

PhillProvance- I think you have it right when you say that the writing sample is the most important. None of that other stuff matters, they probably won't even look at that other stuff if your writing sample doesn't spark interest in the search committee. Then after that they'll look at your personal statement and references. Most of the people that I entered my program with (I'm a 2nd year poet at UVA) hadn't published much. It's the sample and how the faculty feels they can work with your work and then whoever you actually are is second to that. At least this is what I gather from convos and eavesdropping.

I think your publishing successes might only serve to ease your mind during the waiting process. Your writing has been chosen before, that's good, right? And then it was chosen out of the chosen when it was nominated for a Pushcart. So maybe it'll be chosen again.

Good luck!


www.mfachronicles.blogspot.com - Follow us as we begin our 1st years in MFA programs!


PhillProvance


Nov 21, 2010, 12:25 AM

Post #1132 of 1175 (13001 views)
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Re: [unsaid78] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

@Unsaid: Thank you for the vote of confidence. Gosh what silly people we all are, hunh? Saner types would just pursue a profession whose requirements for success were more clearly delineated.:-)

But, there is hope: One of my good friends got his first major poetry book deal yesterday, and he went through the same meat grinder we are all trying to dive into (specifically Nebraska). I'm very happy for his success, and he is an awesome poet. Such things are what have convinced me that even though I don't need an MFA to make a living writing, I do need an MFA to make a living as an artist. I know everyone says MFAs aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but I've seen several friends do well after having them. So let's hope we all get in.:-)

Also, yes, have been following MFAChronicles off and on. Can't wait to be there too.:-)


blob


Nov 21, 2010, 12:32 AM

Post #1133 of 1175 (12999 views)
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Re: [PhillProvance] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

@phill

I think you've already gotten the right advice, it's really impossible to determine how qualified a candidate really is. and even if you can, it's still a gamble.


My real question for you is why only one program? I know you said you really like Umass, but is there really only one program you like? What do you hope to accomplish from your mfa that you feel you can only get from one school?

Just curious (I'm a crazy person applying to 14).


PhillProvance


Nov 21, 2010, 12:47 AM

Post #1134 of 1175 (12997 views)
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Re: [blob] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

@Blob. Well, my reasoning is that all my post-college mentors have been connected to there and the only major influence I have from the living old guard that teaches grad teaches there. Also I identify with the New Absurdist, Neo-surrealist, Oulipo and New York School tradition, and UMass seems to be the center for these kinds of poetry from what I see from its graduates. So, all in all, it just seems to make the most sense to me and is really the only school I'd want to get into.

Otherwise, I'll just keep working and apply again next year. After all, an MFA is less a guarantee of professional success than an opportunity to develop under some great poets, and it's terribly expensive besides, so if I'm going to go I'd rather go where I will feel I fit in.

I've done a lot of research and met quite a few graduates from the top 20 since college and that's just how I feel. For me, no matter where it falls in the actual rankings, UMass will be No. 1.

Now as for what I think I'll get out of the program, I look at it this way: When I was in college I wanted to learn to do the complex things, and I got that down. Then, when I was out of college I wanted to learn how to do the simple thing and how to bring the two together. Now my goal is to continue doing that, but to learn how to keep that tension between the complex beneath the seemingly simplistic from being noticeable. I suppose I might be able to learn that anywhere, but I really think James Tate is the best person to learn it from since the man uses a kind of Oulipo process to construct cutups that you'd never know were cutups. And I find that completely brilliant.:-)

Now if they don't take me, well, I do have a plan B. That friend I mentioned above, I think he's awesome, but he's currently trying to find the right tenure track spot for him. If he finds it before UMass lets me in, I'll just say to hell with them and go after wherever he is. He's currently gunning for Portland State, and while that would mean uprooting, that would be the only place my well-rejected heart would want to be.:-)

Anyhow, so enough about me. How about you? Why so many? I thought about doing that, but in the end I decided it was a big waste of time and money if I didn't want to go anywhere else. What was your logic on it?


blob


Nov 21, 2010, 12:57 AM

Post #1135 of 1175 (12993 views)
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Re: [PhillProvance] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

@Phill
the schools I'm applying to are schools with good funding, have a curriculum that appeals to me, and strong reputations. While one might end up being a better fit for me than another, I don't think that any one school on my list will prepare me any better than another.
Regardless of how strong someone's application is, the process is too much of a crap shoot for me to feel comfortable with a small group of schools. But I agree there is no point in applying to a school I'm not REALLY excited about. If there were 20 schools that really excited me, I'd apply to 20. I'd rather only have to apply once, so I figure I may as well do it properly.

I'm surprised that at this stage you find anyone school to be substantially more appealing than any others. Certainly, they all have a different feel and environment, but there are aspects of all the schools on my list that have some appeal to me. And I think ultimately any program is as good as you choose to make it. But if you've found your dream, more power to you.

It's always good to get suggestions from mentors. But it might be worth asking them about other programs also if you're really serious about pursing an mfa. But if your priority is more to go to umass than to have the mfa experience in general, then I guess umass it is :)


PhillProvance


Nov 21, 2010, 1:14 AM

Post #1136 of 1175 (12989 views)
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Re: [blob] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

@Blob - Well, my point is more to hone my skills in the direction I want. After all, that's what you get out of an MFA unless you just want the teaching credentials, right? So, at the end of the day, I look at it as pushing myself closer into line with the poet I want to become than just having another certification.

If I did just want the certification I would probably have cast a wider net. But the other thing was that this group coming out, the folks I speak with regularly and read. I have a natural affinity to and with them. The other folks I've met, from the other big programs, well, quite frankly they've been jerks to me in the past. I'm not saying everyone out of these schools is a jerk, just the ones I've met. And besides that, even before meeting and communicating with them I'm usually not a fan of their work.

What sold me on UMass was that I have yet to read a book from one of their grads that didn't send me to writing my own work. And that's something special. What's more, usually under these peoples' influence - not their advice, but the poetry itself - I do my best work. So there's some spirit there that I'm not getting from the other schools. Really too, UMass isn't the best-funded but it does offer money, and for a reasonable amount I'd make due just to be there. For me it's like being Henry Miller with some lame-brained scheme of packing it off to Paris to be around Hemingway, Joyce, etc.; or even being Gordon Lish and packing it off to California to follow the Beats.

Likely, even if I get in, I'll miss whatever that special chemistry was or just barely catch it, so I'll end up piddling in the afterglow just like Miller and Lish. But they still ended up solid, imho. So why not, right?

In the end, I just want the expense to mean something to me, and I think this is the best way to go about it. I mean, there's some name recognition there, sure, but it's not like I'm chasing Iowa. I'm not really a fan of the folks I've read and run into from there and lost all interest when Marvin Bell left stopped teaching there. And yes, he's at PU, I know, but I really want to do the full-rez and get in three solid years of writing what I want after four of writing whatever people tell me to write.:-)


sarandipidy


Dec 15, 2010, 4:02 AM

Post #1137 of 1175 (12767 views)
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Re: [PhillProvance] GRE Score Reports [In reply to] Can't Post

Phil:

I applied to MFA programs during my senior year of college, and the poems I sent to MFA programs, in comparison to the work I am doing post-MFA (and during MFA, mostly), were really quite bad. I'm not saying they were bad poems for a 20-21 year old. I'm just saying that they weren't good, and that I thought I was going to an MFA program to "hone my craft" but what I was really doing was finding my poems. I don't want to reduce it to something sappy-sounding, like "finding my voice," or something cold, like "finding my craft" or "aesthetic." What I mean is that I found my poems.

This might be different for those (like you) who start programs a few years post-college, I don't know, but I think even "honing your skills in the direction you want" is limiting because you shouldn't necessarily point yourself in a direction quite yet, at least not consciously and intently. I entered my program with a significantly different "aesthetic" than I have now. The poet I thought I was pre-MFA is no more. Death to her! My poems (and, to a great extent, other poets) led the way; my brain, generally, was along for the ride. Note that I'm not saying I came in writing narrative realist poems and left writing L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems; that's not what I mean. The shifts I took were more subtle, but significant enough that they're poems I didn't think I'd ever be writing.

The value of an MFA is the growing, the development--the chance to develop. <On side note: This is why I've stopped "justifying" my life and degree choices to others at this point and I really think we should all, in this field, stop being self-deprecating. As much as the MFA is one prerequisite for university teaching, that is not its primary value and we should stop trying to justify its place in the capitalist economy to people who don't and will never understand. For me, the MFA was an opportunity to engage, full throttle, in poetry and poetics, and (in particular) my own poetry in relation to a historical tradition. If it helps me get a job, it will be primarily because it helped me become a better writer, not because I paid my dues to the system.>

I understand your devotion to UMass, but I also see a bit of myself in you. I, too, had pre-acceptance devotion to a particular program. Consider this: the one person I wanted to work with most at that program actually helped me least (well, maybe she helped me in some ways, in that her treatment of my work caused a personal crisis that in turn caused me to see my work differently). And the one person to help me most? I didn't meet her until my second year, when she was hired. The program, during my first year, was so disheartening I considered transferring. Then this other person came along and gave me the kind of mentorship I personally needed to grow as a poet.

FWIW, I applied to three competitive programs (not Iowa, however) based mostly on location, and was accepted to two. UMass was one of them, but I chose to go elsewhere. In hindsight (no longer, erm, 20 years old), I would have cast my net wider, not necessarily because of my "chances" but because I now know that what I thought about my work before entering the MFA wasn't actually true about it! I changed so much during my program. It's crazy to read those old poems now; it's as if they're written by a different person. Not everyone's work undergoes this sort of transformation, but I don't think it's uncommon.

Also, FWIW, I had some online publications and one publication in a well-known literary journal, plus some writing award(s) from my undergraduate college, but I am positive (without question) you or anyone could apply with none of those things and do just as well. It's mostly about promise and potential, and less so about numbers and pedigree and polish. My undergrad work certainly wasn't polished (with the exception of that one print published poem), and it didn't aesthetically match UMass professors' work, but I still managed to be a "top 5 candidate" there. MFA program admissions are extremely competitive, but you are not competing against people with lots of awards and publications; trust me, that is a rare applicant (who is very likely to be accepted, but still, it's rare.)

Good luck!


(This post was edited by sarandipidy on Dec 15, 2010, 4:05 AM)


sarandipidy


Dec 15, 2010, 4:16 AM

Post #1138 of 1175 (12764 views)
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Re: [almondpunch] Funding rankings [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
@ Pedro, kaybay

I've heard that as well -- that the number of MFA applicants has surged since the economic crisis. But it's a discouraging, insensitive, and purposeless comment for someone to make to a hopeful writer, and I'm sorry to hear it came from a workshop instructor, whose purpose is ultimately to strengthen rather than to destroy confidence. Personally, dwelling too much on the competition just cramps my creativity, and on a communal level I sense that it breeds a subtle paranoia/hysteria on the blogs. Less so on this blog than on the MFA blog.

There are spots for us. Just take heart and write on.


I think this is the best attitude. "Take heart and write on." If you don't get into a program this year, for whatever reason, that doesn't mean you will never get in. Lots of people get in their second year applying. Heart on and write on.


ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein


Dec 15, 2010, 8:19 AM

Post #1139 of 1175 (12749 views)
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Re: [sarandipidy] Funding rankings [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think this is the best attitude. "Take heart and write on."





Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.


kbritten

e-mail user

Dec 15, 2010, 10:46 AM

Post #1140 of 1175 (12734 views)
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I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just want to announce to all that I am done with my applications! HURRAH! Time to celebrate! And then wait. And wait. And wait. I have nothing to do now and that's weird. I hope I don't shop and eat too much in anticipation...


sarandipidy


Dec 15, 2010, 4:27 PM

Post #1141 of 1175 (12696 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] Funding rankings [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Eric! I want two posters on my wall now: KEEP CALM AND WRITE ON and WRITE LIKE A MOTHERF*CKER (via Dear Sugar).


chicagofog

e-mail user

Dec 17, 2010, 5:43 PM

Post #1142 of 1175 (12608 views)
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Re: [kbritten] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

I mailed the rest of my applications off today and now there's a big bottle of wine chilling for me. If I've learned anything from this MFA application process it's that drinking is absolutely necessary!!! I'm hoping the next two months of waiting don't absolutely kill me. :)


Truth & Fiction



Dec 20, 2010, 11:20 AM

Post #1143 of 1175 (12504 views)
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Re: [kneelis] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

First, yes: Wine is a necessary ingredient in many writing processes!

I'm following these MFA threads even though 1) I don't have an MFA and 2) I am not applying to MFA programs. On one hand, I want an MFA, but I'm also happy with my current writing situation. I have what I think most people are looking for when they apply to MFA programs -- I have writing buddies and trusted readers, etc. I have a full-time job that I'm happy with and have created my own writing schedule outside of work.

Is there anyone else out there -- whether you applied this year or not -- with similar concerns/confusion about taking the leap and getting an MFA?

I just wrote a blog post about all this. In the end, I guess I'll never know whether I'd be a different/better writer with an MFA unless I actually get the degree. Which might happen one day....just not right now.

Good luck to everyone who is applying. I will check back for updates as the news starts rolling in!


Truth and Fiction


karinr
Karin Rosman


Dec 20, 2010, 1:56 PM

Post #1144 of 1175 (12492 views)
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Re: [Truth & Fiction] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

I took the long route to an MFA program. I wanted to take time to work on my writing on my own, but had hoped to go to an MFA program in my early thirties. Lots of things happened in between, and I'm now in my early forties. Though not as I planned, the timing for me is right. I'm more focused than I ever was, and feel as if I can use the upcoming years (just received my official offer this morning) in a more focused way than I would have even ten years ago. I fully encourage you to continue as you are. You'll know if and when you want to take the MFA track.


Truth & Fiction



Dec 20, 2010, 2:52 PM

Post #1145 of 1175 (12478 views)
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Re: [karinr] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you...that's encouraging, especially after I saw Seth Abramson's poll of MFA applicant ages and the respondents were mostly in their early to mid 20s. I'm aware that there are plenty of MFA students in their 30s, 40s, and beyond, but sometimes it feels like the longer I wait and older I get, the more difficult it will be to go back to school.


Truth and Fiction


chicagofog

e-mail user

Dec 20, 2010, 11:46 PM

Post #1146 of 1175 (12449 views)
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Re: [Truth & Fiction] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

Never ever feel like you are too old to go back to school!

I hope this offers a different perspective but I will be 26 in March. After spending years traveling alone across the country and finally getting things together around 22 I went to college and will be finishing up in April. As someone who is in my 20's applying for MFA programs I look forward to working with older students. Maybe I am just an old soul or flat out boring but man, the kids I go to school with really drive me nuts sometimes.

A word to applicants applying to Western Michigan University's MFA program: pick your housing carefully! I go there for undergrad and someone lit my damn dumpster outside my apts on fire last week...just one of many fun incidents to happen. WMU is a great school though and I can give tons of tips on living in Kalamazoo.

What I'm trying to say is that don't feel like you're "old" going into these programs where there may be a lot of 20 somethings. You may find younger students like me who gladly prefer the company of others who don't scream "Chug! Chug! Chug!" outside at the top of their lungs while their "bff" does a keg stand on weeknights...unless they've had a particularly bad workshop that day. :)


kghoerth



Dec 21, 2010, 9:42 AM

Post #1147 of 1175 (12428 views)
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Re: [kneelis] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

From my experiences, there's been plenty of 'older' people in workshop classes with me. Several students in the program are 50s-60s... and thinking about my classmates - the average must be at LEAST 30, probably a little higher.

That being said, we're all going to be shouting "chug chug chug" together this weekend to celebrate graduation :-D


elissa
Elissa Field


Dec 21, 2010, 6:26 PM

Post #1148 of 1175 (12391 views)
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Re: [Truth & Fiction] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

T&F, if you have any doubts about how hard it will be to get back into school, take a college course now. For reasons not related to an MFA, I ended up taking a series of Spanish classes some time back, and then teaching classes this past year. I'm in my early 40s (can I say very early? wink), and it is extremely confidence boosting to have earned 4.0's in those more recent classes -- which managed to pull up the 3.10 I had from goofing off my first time in college. It will help a grad app to have proven myself more recently, and also has me very "real" about what the requirements of performing in school again will be.


http://elissafield.wordpress.com/
http://www.facebook.com/...p?id=100001772022683


Truth & Fiction



Dec 22, 2010, 11:31 AM

Post #1149 of 1175 (12338 views)
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Re: [elissa] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for chiming in, everyone. It's not that I feel I am too old, exactly -- I'm actually still very young, just not 24 anymore! I guess I view MFA programs as being made up mostly of the young (early to mid-twenties) students, and since I probably won't apply until some undetermined point in the future, I will definitely be past that. Which is fine, and I know it doesn't really matter... I think this is all related to some vague feeling of anxiety that my chance to get an MFA is passing me by. Which is also untrue, I know, but I'm a writer and am free to feel anxious without cause, right?


Truth and Fiction


elissa
Elissa Field


Dec 22, 2010, 11:47 AM

Post #1150 of 1175 (12337 views)
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Re: [Truth & Fiction] I'm DONE! [In reply to] Can't Post

I was first going to apply when I was 29 -- I'm sooo glad I didn't. Everyone has a different "right for them" age. For me, no matter how much of a personal style I had when working alone, I would become too influenced by others when I was younger, and too sensitive about whether or not *everyone* liked what I was writing. If I went to do an MFA now, not only have I become clear enough about what I believe and don't, but I crossed the line somewhere where I was willing to take a stand even if others disagreed. I've also seen/done enough now that I don't get panicked about not having anything to write about, and have more perspective on the meaning of things.

Thats' just why waiting until later works better for me. I know another writer I haven't talked to in awhile who felt she needed the structure of writing in a program, and went successfully at 22.

I think the best advice everyone gives here is to know what your goal is, why you feel you need to go, what you would work on and what you'd hope to get out of it... and know for yourself when your best time is. It definitely is not a program/profession that belongs to any one age.


http://elissafield.wordpress.com/
http://www.facebook.com/...p?id=100001772022683

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