»

Subscribe | Give a Gift Subscription

Log In or Register | Help | Contact Us | Donate

Advanced Search

Main Index » Writing and Publishing » MFA Programs
creative writing ph.d. ?
Edit your profilePrivate messages Search postsWho's online?
You are not signed in. Click here to sign in.
If you are not a member, Register here!
137343 registered users
First page Previous page 1 ... 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 ... 84 Next page Last page  View All


TC3


Mar 6, 2010, 12:56 PM

Post #1676 of 2090 (33389 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sicofelephants] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Alright gals and guys,

Gradcafe update. Around 12:45pm EST someone poasted a Denver creative writing poetry acceptance with the note: "Other acceptances will be notified within 48 hours is what I was told."

I think Denver accepts 2 poets per year, so that's half of that! :)


sicofelephants


e-mail user

Mar 6, 2010, 1:07 PM

Post #1677 of 2090 (33375 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TC3] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

drat. This does not bode well for me. Oh well. I'm actually starting to look forward to getting a job for a little while so I can start paying off my student loans from undergrad. This whole masters thing was just buying me time. :-)

I've always wanted to move to Seattle or Boulder. Might actually have the freedom to do that now.

Houston is the last school standing on my list. How about you guys?


(This post was edited by sicofelephants on Mar 6, 2010, 1:07 PM)


TC3


Mar 6, 2010, 1:26 PM

Post #1678 of 2090 (33353 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sicofelephants] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, sic, I'm also looking forward to revamping my application strategy next year (I'll be way more strategic about it and throw in a few critical PhDs and MFAs, probably). It certainly takes a long time to hone one's interests to something that can be pitched for the PhD level of study!

I haven't heard a peep from Ohio or Georgia yet, though I'm pretty sure that GA made decisions last week.
And Binghamton is still weeks away.


abcd

e-mail user

Mar 6, 2010, 1:26 PM

Post #1679 of 2090 (33352 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bordercrosser] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations on Hawaii! I am so excited for you--so many choices!

Re: Milw Yeah, I will want to visit before committing, especially because my partner will be moving with me, too. Like you, I'm not sure when. I will wait to hear back from other schools and start really getting into the decision making in late March when I (hopefully) know just what my choices are. :)


umass76


Mar 6, 2010, 2:07 PM

Post #1680 of 2090 (33312 views)
Shortcut
Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Seth claims that the "growing trend" for poets is 3-5 books, yet after going through the list of recent hires (available on AWP), I found no evidence to back-up this claim; most of the young poets (in academia, "young" is under 40, not someone like Carolyn Wright) had 1-2 books. Big difference between 1-2 and 3-5. -- GCSUMFA


Seems kind of unlikely I'd be in a Ph.D. program and wanting to teach and not know anything about the job market, doesn't it?

[Link].

Open Poetry Positions 2008-9

Carnegie Mellon: Yona Harvey (spousal hire).
Case Western: Sarah Gridley (inside candidate).
CUNY Staten Island: Patricia Smith (5 books).
CUNY Staten Island: Tyehimba Jess (1 book; National Poetry Series Winner + Whiting Award Winner).
Illinois State: Duriel Harris (1 book).
Loyola: Joshua Marie Wilkinson (4 books).
LSU: Lara Glenum (3 books; 2 poetry and 1 as anthology editor).
Montclair: Susan B.A. Somers-Willett (3 books; 2 poetry and 1 criticism).
Ohio Northern: Kathryn Coles (1 book).
Ohio State-Lima: Doug Sutton-Ramspeck (spousal hire).
Texas State: Ogaga Ifowodo (4 books).
UCSD: Ben Doller (2 books + Walt Whitman Award).
UC Boulder: Noah Eli Gordon (6 books).
UC Denver: Brian Barker (1 book + Tupelo Press Editor's Prize).
Oregon: Geri Doran (1 book + Walt Whitman Award).
Rochester: Jennifer Grotz (2 books + Bakeless Prize).
Washburn: Eric McHenry (1 book + Kate Tufts Discovery Prize).
Washington College (3 books; inside candidate).
York: Travis Kurowski (unknown).

Open Poetry Positions 2009-10

George Mason: Ben Doller (3 books + Walt Whitman Award).
Houston: Maurice Manning (3 books + Yale Younger Poets Prize).
Houston: Ange Mlinko (2 books + National Poetry Series Winner).
Charleston: Emily Rosko (1 book + Stegner Fellowship + Iowa Poetry Prize).
Northern Kentucky: Kelly Moffett (1 book).
Greensboro: Rebecca Black (1 book + Stegner Fellowship + Juniper Prize).
Wisconsin-Green Bay: N/A (inside hire).


Tally

Total Positions Filled w/ Known Data (Across Two Years): 25


Non-Publicized Searches: ?

Non-Open Publicized Searches: 5 (20.0%)

Spousal Hires: 2 (8.0%)
Inside Hires: 3 (12.0%)

Total Hires With 1 Book in Open, Publicized Searches: 9 (36.0%)

1 book + 0 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
1 book + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
1 book + 2 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)

Total Hires With 2 Books in Open, Publicized Searches: 3 (12.0%)

2 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 0 (0.0%)
2 books + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)

Total Hires With 3 or More Books in Open, Publicized Searches: 8 (32.0%)


3 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 0 (0.0%)
3 books + 1 award/Stegner: 4 (16.0)
4 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 2 (8.0%)
5 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)
6 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)


Top 10 Most Likely Scenarios (By Percentage):

1. 3 books + 1 award/Stegner (16%)
2t. Inside Hires: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 1 book + 0 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 1 book + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 1 book + 2 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 2 books + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
7t. Spousal Hires: 2 (8.0%)
7t. 4 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 2 (8.0%)
9t. 5 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)
9t. 6 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)

Since I didn't hear anyone here say, "Well, when I said you could get a job with just 1 book, I meant you had to also win a major national book prize and/or get a Stegner Fellowship," the categories we've been speaking of here are "1 book (only)" and "2 books (only)" which combined made up for 12.0% of the hires from 2008 to the present listed on the primary online community for CW job-seekers that is run by CW job-seekers (CHE or AWP data won't be different, but it will be less researched as to hires' backgrounds because they [CHE/AWP] don't care about that stuff institutionally).

The average hire during the span looked at above had 2.1 books and 0.8 major national awards and/or Stegner Fellowships.

So I suppose my question is, what percentage of CW Ph.D. graduates have 2.1 books and 0.8 major national awards and/or Stegner Fellowships or more?

But here's the rub: I did virtually no additional research on the names above. They may have more books than were stated, more awards than were stated, more inside/spousal hire connections than were stated. Moreover, we're talking about a) the job market now, not in 4-6 years, when current CW Ph.D. candidates graduate (which is why I said "growing trend" in my initial comment), and b) none of the above counted non-publicized job openings, which only go to already-famous writers. The jobs above are the most wide-open job searches in America. Many CW TT positions are the result of specific recruitment.

Nor am I at all clear why GCSUMFA only looked up "young poets" on AWP -- whose online data the organization has conceded (to me personally!) is not updated regularly or always accurately -- when in fact that stacks the deck; the question is how hard is it to get a job, and how many jobs are available, and who gets them, not the answer to any of those questions within the specific context of only schools that were already willing to hire young people.

1 book is exceedingly unlikely to get anyone a job. 2 books is exceedingly unlikely to get anyone a job. 2 books with approximately 1 major national award or fellowship is -- amazingly -- roughly "at" the average qualification level in this field. I stand by my contention that, going forward, and taking into account both publicized jobs (which go to less qualified candidates) and unpublicized jobs (which go to more qualified candidates), the average situation will be that one must have 3 to 5 books (and notice I didn't claim one had to have any national awards or fellowships) to get a TT job over the next 5 years.

S.


(This post was edited by umass76 on Mar 6, 2010, 2:11 PM)


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 3:50 PM

Post #1681 of 2090 (33238 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Nor am I at all clear why GCSUMFA only looked up "young poets" on AWP -- whose online data the organization has conceded (to me personally!) is not updated regularly or always accurately -- when in fact that stacks the deck; the question is how hard is it to get a job, and how many jobs are available, and who gets them, not the answer to any of those questions within the specific context of only schools that were already willing to hire young people.

1 book is exceedingly unlikely to get anyone a job. 2 books is exceedingly unlikely to get anyone a job. 2 books with approximately 1 major national award or fellowship is -- amazingly -- roughly "at" the average qualification level in this field. I stand by my contention that, going forward, and taking into account both publicized jobs (which go to less qualified candidates) and unpublicized jobs (which go to more qualified candidates), the average situation will be that one must have 3 to 5 books (and notice I didn't claim one had to have any national awards or fellowships) to get a TT job over the next 5 years.

S.


Why wouldn't I focus on "young" poets, given the particular context of my post?

How many poets can expect to graduate a PhD CW program with 3-5 books? My point was in regards to the market for PhD CW grads just entering it , since most--if not all of us--posting on this thread are either applying to programs or still in programs and under the age of 40.

Do you really think that a 35 year old with a CW PhD and a well-received book--1 book--won't be a good candidate for a job at a mid-tier state university? Or, that many departments would rather hire someone with ten books who will be looking to leave before he steps on campus instead of a young up-and-comer who will stay around longer? Seriously? How complicated is this? On what planet can it be reasonably expected for a poet to leave a PhD CW program with 3-5 books? And, with this in mind, why shouldn't I focus on the hiring of young poets when I'm clearly discussing "first jobs" out of a PhD CW program?

I'm assuming that all of us here are smart enough to realize that "first job" doesn't equal "job for life," or that poets stop writing once they land their first jobs out of grad school.


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Mar 6, 2010, 3:58 PM)


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 4:25 PM

Post #1682 of 2090 (33205 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

In other words, Seth, I'm discussing the kinds of entry level jobs that most PhD grads will have the best chance of landing right out of grad school. There is no way in hell that a poet is going to need 3-5 books to land a tenure track job at UNC-Asheville teaching poetry writing to undergrads.


umass76


Mar 6, 2010, 4:39 PM

Post #1683 of 2090 (33197 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh Jeez... You are really wasting everyone's time now. The data I gave you was for entry-level jobs. Look at that list of schools above -- how many have MFAs? They are all jobs teaching CW to undergrads. Even Cornell's recent search was for a job teaching undergrads. The jobs not in the data above are the ones no one even gets to apply for (i.e. MFA jobs). And those are the jobs everyone actually wants.

You said my facts were wrong, you said 1-2 books was enough to get a job. I showed that you were wrong. You said I didn't know about or hadn't looked into the job market. I showed that you were wrong. You said that a CW Ph.D. could expect to find a TT job and that this was one reason to do a creative dissertation. I showed that that view was naive. Now you're using tautological reasoning to escape what you've said and I'm not even sure you realize it. This is what you're doing:

Q: Why do employers (GCSUMFA says, wrongly) not require applicants to have more than 1-2 books?

A: Because CW Ph.D. grads can't be expected to have more than 1-2 books.


Q: Why do employers care what recent CW Ph.D. grads do or don't have, when they can hire anyone of any age they want?

A: Because CW Ph.D. grads can't be expected to have more than 1-2 books.

Q: How do we know that it's no problem for recent CW Ph.D. grads to only have 1-2 books?

A: Because employers hire CW Ph.D. grads, and CW Ph.D. grads are likely to only have 1-2 books.

Q: What do we do with the fact that the data actually says employers are
not hiring recent CW Ph.D. grads for TT jobs (undergrad or MFA), not primarily hiring people with only 1-2 books and no major awards, and do not care about the age of their hires in a world where CW Ph.D. grads are likely to be around 30, and the Yale Younger Poets Prize considers a "young poet" someone 40 or younger (meaning employers could still be hiring "young poets" in hiring people 10 years post-doctorate, not to mention the fact that many programs don't want to hire young poets, but established ones)?

A: We ignore that information. Data is only significant if I take two seconds to pull it off AWP; if it gets contradicted by more extensive and more specific data, I retreat to the safety of tautology.


Look, GCSUMFA, I'm not telling you all this for my health. I already know this stuff, and I'm making decisions based on it. This is for your benefit, because clearly you don't know any of this. If you want to ignore it I could care less. I did what I could: I posted the information, and now folks can see the truth about things and decide what they think about it. But resorting to rhetorical pretzel-logic to defend your sense of self in the face of being woefully wrong is simply a disservice to yourself and to others here. The truth isn't about me or you, it just is. The data here isn't "Seth's data," nor does it reflect "Seth's agenda," it's simply the data. I care less about winning an argument; what I want is to get the facts right. So, the facts:

1. Employers primarily are looking for established poets and will often recruit these directly. These poets are likely to have won major national awards and have many books and none of us can compete with them for employment nor will we be allowed to.

2. When and if employers open their positions to national searches, they will not care about the age of their hires but rather their publication history. It will be presumed -- it will not advance anyone's chances -- that every candidate has a sufficient terminal degree in the field.

3. The standard for getting a TT job, at present, albeit only with respect to the small percentage of jobs that are open to public application, is 2+ books and 1 national award; in 4-6 years that figure will rise to 3+ books at a minimum.

4. The total number of available CW TT jobs, at any level, is laughably small. A few dozen per year at best. Around 2,000 new poets graduate from MFA and Ph.D. programs looking for jobs each year.

5. Colleges and universities have every right to consider diversity in making hiring decisions. The effect of this, non-pejoratively, is that those who can't bring any additional communal diversity to their prospective communities are at a disadvantage. In practical terms, this may well mean that white male poets will need to have, on average, a lengthier publication history prior to getting hired than others. This in no way means or suggests anyone else is unqualified -- merely that there has traditionally been a glut of white males in academia, and the present generation of white males is feeling the effect of that. No one's asking anyone to feel sorry for us, nor would we expect that if we asked. But for a white male poet not to consider the job market in all its complexities is folly, and for anyone (whatever their background) to underestimate the difficulty of this market is also folly.

So no -- CW Ph.D. graduates can't expect to have 2.1 books and 0.8 national awards. That's also why they can't expect to have TT jobs unless and until they reach that point.

And depending upon their personal background, they may need to push well beyond that point. And nobody gets to whine that it's not fair, because that question is entirely immaterial -- it is what it is.

Here's the good news: you will be able to get a 4/4 adjunct job with no healthcare. And you'll think I'm being cruel or facetious here -- I'm not. I actually do consider this the good news, for all of us.

S.


(This post was edited by umass76 on Mar 6, 2010, 4:46 PM)


Forum Apps


Mar 6, 2010, 4:50 PM

Post #1684 of 2090 (33174 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Regardless of anything else people feel then need to complain about--I think you should write a freelance article on this stuff or publish it on your blog. It is VERY useful information.

Are you sure your data covers everything (I'm not sure how well some universities advertise... like, our local UW - Superior school is currently hiring someone in their writing department with either a rhetoric degree or an mfa degree... That said, you don't have this year's data above... so who knows.)


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 5:59 PM

Post #1685 of 2090 (33121 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Oh Jeez... You are really wasting everyone's time now. The data I gave you was for entry-level jobs. Look at that list of schools above -- how many have MFAs? They are all jobs teaching CW to undergrads.


Oh Jeez. You apparently have no clue what you're talking about if you think all of those jobs are considered "entry level,” or if you think I’m too stupid to actually click the Wikia link to see that half of the job results—many at places that are in fact “entry level”—were never even reported. It would make sense, wouldn’t it, that the bigger jobs would have their results reported on such a site, rather than a job at Nebraska-Wesleyan? No? You only copied the results of the places that have been self-reported. I visit that site quite regularly, and many of the results at smaller places go unreported. Wikia is a self-reported site. Many people still don’t even know it exists.

Also, what do you mean, “they’re all jobs teaching undergrads”? George Mason? LSU? Houston? Huh? There’s a big difference between teaching undergrads in addition to grad students (it’s not uncommon at all for MFA profs to teach grad-undergrad mixed loads) and teaching undergrads at an institution that only serves undergrads (or one that isn't considered a research university). Do you really think that, in these times, state research universities that serve grad students and undergrads are hiring writers to just teach MFA students? Do you not see the difference between these hires and the hires at places like Nebraska-Wesleyan?

Do you not know the wide-ranging distinctions between institution types, the differences between RI’s, regional universities, and SLACS? Do you think creative writing jobs aren’t impacted by these distinctions? Do you think the hires at LSU and Houston will also have to teach composition and world literature, like the hire at Nebraska-Wesleyan? Do you think a poet with 5 books is going to sign on to teach composition and world literature at Nebraska-Wesleyan?

Are you really this stupid?


In Reply To
Even Cornell's recent search was for a job teaching undergrads.


Let me get this straight--you think a job teaching undergrads at an Ivy League school is "entry level"? I originally cited an example of a small liberal arts college in the mountains of North Carolina—as a hypothetical—and you respond with an example of a school that is in the highest Carnegie tier possible—a prestigious RI with one of the biggest endowments in the world. Hilarious. Many of these distinctions extend beyond the world of creative writing, Seth. “Entry level” is determined by many factors outside of creative writing, like, you know, the fact that a school that only serves undergrads--one that isn’t very prestigious--can’t offer a great salary, and requires its professors to teach in more than one area. Jeez, dude—to borrow your own word. This isn’t rocket science, you know?

Furthermore, as already noted, it’s not uncommon for MFA faculty to teach graduate and undergraduate students; this is not the same as teaching a full load of undergrad courses, half of which—sometimes more—aren’t even CW. So no, you don’t have a good understanding of “entry level” in the humanities-creative writing market! Cite all the stats you want! You know what they say about "stats"....what's the saying?...


In Reply To
You said that a CW Ph.D. could expect to find a TT job and that this was one reason to do a creative dissertation.


I did?

I said that a CW PhD increases his chances to land a job because the degree qualifies him to teach literature courses, which makes him more attractive to places that can’t afford to hire someone to just teach creative writing to nineteen year olds in Nebraska.


In Reply To
Look, GCSUMFA, I'm not telling you all this for my health. I already know this stuff, and I'm making decisions based on it. This is for your benefit, because clearly you don't know any of this. If you want to ignore it I could care less.


How does this info benefit me? I’m not a poet.

I don’t think anyone benefits from your bouts of logorrhea. If I wanted to read a filibuster, I’d watch C-SPAN, not read one of your long-winded, bullying screeds.


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Mar 6, 2010, 6:08 PM)


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 6:14 PM

Post #1686 of 2090 (33103 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, in regards to the Ivy League exception, Amy Hempel was recently hired to teach undergrads at Princeton, so no, a job teaching Ivy League kids creative writing--probably 1-2 courses a semester--is not "entry level."


umass76


Mar 6, 2010, 6:16 PM

Post #1687 of 2090 (33097 views)
Shortcut
Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

That's right: I explicitly provided the link in the hope you would ignore it.

Or perhaps I hoped you would click on it and actually understand what you saw there -- most of the blanks beside job openings represent frozen and cancelled job searches; if you'd actually been following the academic job market during this economic downturn you would know that fewer than half of all CW job searches actually survive to their interview phase. Hence, the blanks. And don't you lecture me on what an R1 university is, nor try to pretend that there is no one at an R1 teaching composition and if a job is at an R1 it can't involve comp. That's imbecilic.

The term "entry level" is yours, not mine -- my term is the one actually used, TT (and I somehow actually feel the need to point out to you that there are two Ts rather than one because one "enters" on a track but does not immediately receive tenure). All of the jobs on that page are TT, not tenured. All involve at least some, and most of them involve exclusively, undergraduate teaching -- again, proving what you said absolutely and irreparably wrong, not that we can expect an acknowledgment. What you are defining as a non-entry-level job is a graduate-level position at an MFA, and as I've said before those positions are often not opened to the general job-seeking public.

I tremble at the thought that you consider jobs at Washburn University, York University, Montclair College, Washington College, Ohio Northern University, Northern Kentucky University, and a slough of satellite state campuses, coupled with only a few major universities (at my count, 8, generously), as constituting "only the bigger jobs." Can you unpack for us how you're distinguishing Nebraska Wesleyan and Northern Kentucky? I for one would be fascinated.

You wrote, "Do you not see the difference between these hires and the hires at places like Nebraska Wesleyan?" Do you not see that this is all the jobs there are? That that page has both the MFA jobs you're harping about and the smaller ones? Am I to understand that you are heartened by the fact that it took 3 books to get a job at Washington College (not Washington University)? Or 5 books (in one case) to get a job at the smallest CUNY? 3 books at Montclair College?

You are an ignorant .... you're intentionally misrepresenting what I've said, in bad faith, and the data, in pursuit of some Quixotic belief that your future is rosy.

I'm done with you. Hopefully those with a clue have benefited from the data and don't have your blinders on. But one last thing:

"Entry-level" jobs in academia have a name -- ADJUNCT.

S.


(This post was edited by umass76 on Mar 6, 2010, 6:23 PM)


sicofelephants


e-mail user

Mar 6, 2010, 6:19 PM

Post #1688 of 2090 (33094 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TC3] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah I think doing more of a mix would be a good idea. I originally intended to apply to CW PhDs and some MFAs as well, but was too broke to afford all the apps and just applied to 4 PhDs. Alas. And I'm terrible at sales, so I'm having a hell of a time figuring out how to pitch myself ;-) I treat school too much like a buffet, I think; during my masters I've taken all KINDS of different classes without really focusing on anything other than my poetry workshops. Everything is cool and interesting to me in some way, so I've never really studied any one in thing in depth (beyond 20th century and contemporary poetry).

Good luck to us both in whatever we do with our time between now and next application season! I think things might go a lot better this next time.

You know the sucky thing about having a Houston phone number? Getting lots and LOTS of wrong numbers from other Houston phone numbers. Anytime I see 832 or 713 pop up my heart explodes. Even just today I got a bogus call from an 832 number that left a voice message. Boy did that one freak me out. Anyone know anything about UH notifications? I imagine that's happening soon?


(This post was edited by sicofelephants on Mar 6, 2010, 6:20 PM)


kliq


Mar 6, 2010, 6:27 PM

Post #1689 of 2090 (33078 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TC3] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like Denver and Cincy are more or less a wash now. Now I'm waiting on Ohio, Binghamton, and GSU.


(This post was edited by kliq on Mar 6, 2010, 6:31 PM)


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 6:44 PM

Post #1690 of 2090 (33043 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Or perhaps I hoped you would click on it and actually understand what you saw there -- most of the blanks beside job openings represent frozen and cancelled job searches; if you'd actually been following the academic job market during this economic downturn you would know that fewer than half of all CW job searches actually survive to their interview phase.


Yes, I know. I've still followed the site long enough to see many job acceptances go unreported.


In Reply To
And don't you lecture me on what an R1 university is, nor try to pretend that there is no one at an R1 teaching composition and if a job is at an R1 it can't involve comp. That's imbecilic.


Unlike you, I've actually taught composition recently at an RI--full-time, non-tenure track, w/ benefits. Creative writing professors at R1 MFA programs rarely teach composition because many of these institutions hire full-time, non- tt lecturers to cover the comp load; they also tend to have a lot of TA’s. I think I know what I'm talking about, since I taught in such a department that housed an MFA program while you were practicing law. I'm sure you could find a few exceptions of LSU and Houston MFA professors teaching classes that are typically given to 20 year old TA's--good luck and knock yourself out picking those cherries.



In Reply To
The term "entry level" is yours, not mine -- my term is the one actually used, TT (and I somehow actually feel the need to point out to you that there are t Ts rather than one because one "enters" on a track but does not immediately receive tenure). All of the jobs on that page are TT, not tenured. A


Yeah, like most jobs in academia with professor in the title--like, you know, most asst. prof positions that go to folks out of grad school. So what?


In Reply To
involve at least some, and most of them involve exclusively, undergraduate teaching -- again, proving what you said absolutely and irreparably wrong, not that we can expect an acknowledgment.


Exclusively? At a place like Houston? No they don’t. Please.


In Reply To
I tremble at the thought that you consider jobs at Washburn University, York University, Montclair College, Washington College, Ohio Northern University, Northern Kentucky University, and a slough of satelli te state campuses, coupled with only a few major universities (at my count, 8, generously), as constituting "only the bigger jobs." Can you unpack for us how you're distinguishing Nebraska Wesleyan and Northern Kentucky? I for one would be fascinated.


I was referring to what I’ve noticed about that site over the years, though I can see how my post was unclear in regards to this particular point.


In Reply To
You are an ignorant twat -- you're intentionally misrepresenting what I've said, in bad faith, and the data, in pursuit of some Quixotic belief that your future is rosy. OKAY. (Pats you on the head). Everything's going to be just fine, sport. Drink your juice now.


I never said that my future was assured. And why I would seek assurance from someone who has lived a life of privilege, growing up in the affluent ‘burbs of Concord, someone who charges applicants hundreds of dollars to look over an SOP? I don't need assurance from you! I've experienced enough of the world to expect anything.

Yawn.

Though I must say, I like you better when you're this way--when you show your true colors instead of using all of the passive-aggressive, "be well, best wishes, I love," type sigs.


In Reply To
"Entry-level" jobs in academia have a name, moron -- ADJUNCT.

S.


I never realized that “entry-level” only referred to part-time jobs. Thanks for the correction. I guess when I was hired as a full-time lecturer--not an "adjunct"--I avoided an entry-level position for my qualifications at the time! Damn!


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Mar 6, 2010, 6:52 PM)


__________



Mar 6, 2010, 6:57 PM

Post #1691 of 2090 (33022 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

You are an ignorant twat -- you're intentionally misrepresenting what I've said, in bad faith, and the data, in pursuit of some Quixotic belief that your future is rosy. OKAY. (Pats you on the head). Everything's going to be just fine, sport. Drink your juice now.

WTF? I can't find this post. Did his holiness actually write this? Or is it parody?


six five four three two one 0 ->


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 7:02 PM

Post #1692 of 2090 (33014 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Junior Maas] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You are an ignorant twat -- you're intentionally misrepresenting what I've said, in bad faith, and the data, in pursuit of some Quixotic belief that your future is rosy. OKAY. (Pats you on the head). Everything's going to be just fine, sport. Drink your juice now.

WTF? I can't find this post. Did his holiness actually write this? Or is it parody?


I better watch my back at AWP. Suburban Boy might jump me.

I'm sure people who might hire Mr. Abramson in the future--many of whom will likely be women--love his choice of epithets!

Note to self: never disagree with His Holiness Abramson again.


__________



Mar 6, 2010, 7:08 PM

Post #1693 of 2090 (33003 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

It's worse than you think. Ever since Seth blew up at me for questioning his self-awarded position of 'expert', I've been lit up with PMs with all sort of interesting tidbits. One of them is that if you're at all critical of the idea of his MFA consulting business (or personality in general), YOU WILL BE THREATENED! WITH LEGAL ACTION!

http://htmlgiant.com/mean/abramson-leslie-consulting-v-steve-fellner/


All I'm saying is, watch out. Yours could be the next voice to disappear.

Forever...


six five four three two one 0 ->


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 7:15 PM

Post #1694 of 2090 (32987 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Junior Maas] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's worse than you think. Ever since Seth blew up at me for questioning his self-awarded position of 'expert', I've been lit up with PMs with all sort of interesting tidbits. One of them is that if you're at all critical of the idea of his MFA consulting business (or personality in general), YOU WILL BE THREATENED! WITH LEGAL ACTION!

http://htmlgiant.com/mean/abramson-leslie-consulting-v-steve-fellner/


All I'm saying is, watch out. Yours could be the next voice to disappear.

Forever...


Yeah, well, bullies threaten lawsuits all the time when the other party doesn't know the law. I don't anticipate spending much space on his service anyway. Just decided to throw that in as a reminder that while he may be assuring MFA applicants at the moment, he doesn't need to assure me. I wouldn't want to waste his time.

That said, to avoid being sued for my meager stipend, I would like to note that his service charges $80 for an SOP review, not hundreds of dollars:

Be well, yours truly and humbly,

-G


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Mar 6, 2010, 7:16 PM)


jaywalke


Mar 6, 2010, 7:30 PM

Post #1695 of 2090 (32960 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Yes! (clapclapclapclap) Amazing scene, everyone . . . magic. Really good stuff.

Now take a break while we reset the lights. I want to shoot this in reverse. Keep that energy up! Makeup: can we get a touch-up and a powder? Our two stars are glowing, if you know what I mean.

Damn.

I love the smell of academe in the morning. Smells like vitriol.


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 7:34 PM

Post #1696 of 2090 (32948 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jaywalke] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yes! (clapclapclapclap) Amazing scene, everyone . . . magic. Really good stuff.

Now take a break while we reset the lights. I want to shoot this in reverse. Keep that energy up! Makeup: can we get a touch-up and a powder? Our two stars are glowing, if you know what I mean.

Damn.

I love the smell of academe in the morning. Smells like vitriol.


LOL


LesK
Les
e-mail user

Mar 6, 2010, 7:34 PM

Post #1697 of 2090 (32946 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jaywalke] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I love the smell of academe in the morning. Smells like vitriol.


:-)


gcsumfa


Mar 6, 2010, 7:48 PM

Post #1698 of 2090 (32920 views)
Shortcut
Re: [LesK] Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
I love the smell of academe in the morning. Smells like vitriol.


:-)


Les,

To change the topic--how do you like Cincy so far?


TC3


Mar 6, 2010, 7:51 PM

Post #1699 of 2090 (32916 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sicofelephants] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

That's *my* problem, too! I'm a *terrible* pitchman, though, and this puts my SoP at a severe disadvantage (of course, not to imply that those who write good SoPs are Billy Mayses). I also have trouble moving away from the "buffet" approach to interests, though I see some specific narratives in the works.


kliq


Mar 6, 2010, 8:03 PM

Post #1700 of 2090 (32900 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TC3] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That's *my* problem, too! I'm a *terrible* pitchman, though, and this puts my SoP at a severe disadvantage (of course, not to imply that those who write good SoPs are Billy Mayses). I also have trouble moving away from the "buffet" approach to interests, though I see some specific narratives in the works.


Oh, because my SoP went something like this:

Kliq here for Creative Writing PhD! Are you tired of the same old application clogging up your slush pile? If you choose Kliq App (patent pending) it'll guarantee a better program! Operators are standing by!


(This post was edited by kliq on Mar 6, 2010, 8:04 PM)

First page Previous page 1 ... 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 ... 84 Next page Last page  View All

Main Index » Writing and Publishing » MFA Programs

 


P&W Newsletters

Sign up to receive our monthly email newsletter to stay informed of the latest news, events and more.

Click to Sign Up

Subscribe to P&W Magazine | Donate Now | Advertise | Sign up for E-Newsletter | About Us | Contact Us

© Copyright Poets & Writers 2011. All Rights Reserved