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JosephC

Mar 16, 2006, 12:55 AM

Post #951 of 6267 (10116 views)
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Re: [clarabow] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

Clarabow, I've been having similar feelings. Indiana has me wondering about their admissions policies, for sure. For example, their deadline was January 15th (postmarked). Since I sent my application on the 14th of January, and Monday the 16th was a holiday, they couldn't possibly have opened my envelope until January 17th. Now, their first poetry acceptance was on February 3rd, and I think, on the Livejournal community who_got_in, someone also reported a friend's acceptance sometime around February 10th. Word has it they made their lists early in February. Why is it that I just cannot believe my application got a fair read sometime between 1/17 and 2/3? That's not much time at all. If anyone has any insight, I'd be much obliged.

coolshoes

Mar 16, 2006, 1:15 AM

Post #952 of 6267 (10106 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] Aubrie [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aubrie, sorry about The New School; I have not heard from them yet, but I think you are fiction, right? and I'm nonfiction, so that must be why. But don't be too negative about NYU and Columbia. I agree w/other who have said it is all soooo subjective. One thing someone told me is that you really are not trying to get accepted by a school, so much as by a few people who are reading the materials. And, people are strange and complex and who knows what they might decide, given their indiosyncracies and how they got out of bed that morning. So hang in there.

If by chance you are looking at the possibility of low-res, Lesley University (Cambridge, MA), accepts apps on a rolling basis until June 1. And I believe several other worthwhile low-res programs are taking apps until April 15 for fall, and some accept apps into the summer to begin the program in Jan.

I was attending a writing class tonight at The New School, and came home to find that my husband had taken a call from Steven Cramer, the program director at Lesley -- an acceptance !! (And he must have been a pretty easy going guy, because my husband, who has zero tolerance for self-important academic intellectuals or "important" authors, told me he really liked the guy and talked to him for about 10 minutes!)

So far, I also have a yes from Univ. of So. Maine (Stonecoast) and West. Ct. St. Univ; and a rejection from Queens Univ. Still waiting to hear from Goucher (which has lots of appeal, as it's 100% nonfic) and The New School; but the more I think about the obstacles and stresses (weather problems, transit woes, home situations, kids, etc.) of going into NYC (from NJ) 2-3 nights a week for 2 years, the more attractive the low-res programs look.

I thought the New School was my number 1 choice, but the more I am learning about the others where I've been accepted so far, the more interesting they look. The program directors and even administrative folks I've been in contact with thus far at Maine and CT, for example, seem incredibly more approachable than those at the New School -- based on my interaction at The New School's Open House, classes I've taken there, and by reputation. It's just a gut feeling, and might be a defensive maneuver in anticipation of being rejected, but there you go.

Anyway, hang in there everyone; congrats on all acceptances.

lytonyawename

Mar 16, 2006, 1:26 AM

Post #953 of 6267 (10101 views)
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Re: [JosephC] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

no worries people, Indiana's program secretary contacted ME just before the deadline cause i had submitted some, but not all of my stuff. it arrived all mostly late and she told me, like two weeks after the deadline, that my application was actually going to be considered anyway, and made it sound like no prob.

not that it means i got in... and i haven't heard anything... and yes, even though i've decided where i'm going and am happy, a tiny, irrational side of me is a little hurt. what'r'yah gonna do?

rest well, you weren't likely thrown out without a looksee.

augustmaria

Mar 16, 2006, 1:35 AM

Post #954 of 6267 (10096 views)
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Re: [lytonyawename] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

Indiana contacted me in mid-February to ask for missing parts of my application. I was also told that my app was still being considered, but that they'd appreciate having the rest of the stuff. Maybe they let people know slowly--pick the best as they go along? I don't know--it doesn't make much sense that they'd be asking me for materials after they already let all the people in. (I'm Captain Obvious, I know.)

poetastin

Mar 16, 2006, 2:22 AM

Post #955 of 6267 (10084 views)
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Re: [augustmaria] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

I will probably not be applying to Indiana next year, after all. It seems like a good program, but after speaking with them, I'm convinced they have roughly one spot per ethnic group at their table. I guess that could be good or bad, depending on your background, but other schools seem to arrive naturally at diversity (well, a diversity of hues anyway, although that's hardly indicative of anything). Struck me as a bit weird...

jgarbe

Mar 16, 2006, 2:38 AM

Post #956 of 6267 (10078 views)
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Re: [greenrose] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

I attended three writing workshops there as a student in high school, and I lived in Staunton, which is relatively close to Charlottesville.

The town is honestly one of the best college towns I've seen so far. It's got a pedestrian mall, funky stores and restaurants, scads of used book stores, and a host of relatively entertaining events going on most times.

Can't really say anything about the writing program with any certainty, though, as the one I attended was seasonal, and I think all the writers were only there for the summer.

~Jacob

viviandarkbloom

Mar 16, 2006, 2:48 AM

Post #957 of 6267 (10076 views)
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Re: [poetastin] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

What was it they said that made you come to this conclusion? I'm not doubting you, just curious.

amarier

Mar 16, 2006, 9:11 AM

Post #958 of 6267 (10037 views)
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Re: [coolshoes] Aubrie [In reply to]	Can't Post

Coolshoes-
Just curious, when did you send in your app to Lesley? I'm waiting on hearing back from them, and I know it won't be for a little while since I only sent the application a week ago, but I was wondering how long you had to wait.
Thanks! and congratulations! I think their program looks great. I feel the same about commuting into the city- I live in westchester and thought about applying to residency programs in the city, but then the thought of communiting every week made me decide for certain i would only apply to low-res programs. How do you like your class at the new school?
thanks!

lavashlavash

Mar 16, 2006, 9:19 AM

Post #959 of 6267 (10026 views)
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Re: [viviandarkbloom] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

What was it they said that made you come to this conclusion? I'm not doubting you, just curious.

I'm doubting him.

willbell
Will

Mar 16, 2006, 9:40 AM

Post #960 of 6267 (10008 views)
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Re: [Windiciti] MFA programs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Windiciti--

Fairleigh Dickinson is a fairly new program, and I had more success getting feedback from Goddard alum (on this board and elsewhere). FD is also designed around "modules," which last ten weeks a piece. Goddard incorporates all creative and critical work in the packet schedule, which is designed by the student and mentor/advisor and relates directly to the creative thesis--seems to be a much more organic approach. I wasn't thrilled about FD's online workshopping and class discussion. I'm involved with a writing group of MFA students and graduates that meet every other week--this works better for me than online comments. That said, Goddard has a nice intranet system that is great for keeping in contact with other students, finding residency information, handouts, notices about scholarships and mfa student and faculty accomplishments, etc. I feel very connected to the goings-on...so-to-speak.

Don't get me wrong. I was attracted to FD's international component, their faculty, and the connection to The Literary Review, but Goddard's program design (and mission) just fit better with my needs.

***
Congratulations to all those accepted, and good luck to those still waiting.

coolshoes

Mar 16, 2006, 9:51 AM

Post #961 of 6267 (9991 views)
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Re: [amarier] Lesley Univ [In reply to]	Can't Post

amarier --
I sent in my Lesley app on Feb. 13, but I know they did not get all of my letters of rec. until around March 3 (don't know if that affects the reading/decision making much or not).

In general, I do like my New School instructor and several of the writers in my class; it is run pretty much like a workshop, but perhaps there are too many people and we are not getting as much feedback on each of our pieces as I would have liked. Or maybe I just did not know what to expect. I would say I've gotten much more detailed, extensive and helpful feedback (from the instructor) in other classes I've taken (at NYU, even in workshops at various other schools). Live and learn.

What other schools did you apply to?
Good luck on your Lesley app. Let me know what happens, OK?

www.LisaRomeo.blogspot.com

lustra

Mar 16, 2006, 11:38 AM

Post #962 of 6267 (9919 views)
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Houston? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Has anyone heard anything from the Houston MFA program? They're the last school I am waiting to hear from, and I wish they would hurry! :)

l.

poetastin

Mar 16, 2006, 11:43 AM

Post #963 of 6267 (9911 views)
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Re: [viviandarkbloom] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

What was it they said that made you come to this conclusion? I'm not doubting you, just curious.

Hey Vivian, Lavash. They emphasized 'diversity' and sort of catalogued their student ethnicities for me, told me they actively sought 'balance'; ignored questions of aesthetics, teaching styles, and other things. I knew someone who went there and have a friend studying in another graduate dept. there. Based on these things (and their web site!), they seem to be of an early 90's PC mind where 'diversity' is achieved (and justice done!) by applying different standards based on race. Admissions is not based entirely on the strength of the manuscript. I kind of agree in spirit, but in practice, and particularly in practice in a writing dept, it kind of turns me off. Like I said, other schools have different voices, different nationalities, etc., but haven't mentioned race as an admissions factor.

From their web site: "Our program makes every effort to recruit the strongest and most diverse annual entering class of students possible". They even base their funding on race, or "underrepresented groups", without taking into account financial need or manuscipt quality.

(This post was edited by poetastin on Mar 16, 2006, 11:50 AM)

theapplepicker

Mar 16, 2006, 12:08 PM

Post #964 of 6267 (9880 views)
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Re: [lustra] Houston? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Lustra.

Haven't heard a peep.

Windiciti

Mar 16, 2006, 12:09 PM

Post #965 of 6267 (9880 views)
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Re: [willbell] MFA programs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for your response, Willbell. I'm glad you are happy at Goddard...

When I think of all the $$ we low res folks will spend, every iota of info on how it works is important to know!

But ... you mentioned an MFA/Writers program you meet with every 2 wks. and not on the Internet.
How did you find them? How does this work?
I wd. love to something like that in the Chicago area if I take the low res. approach.

willbell
Will

Mar 16, 2006, 12:22 PM

Post #966 of 6267 (9864 views)
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Re: [Windiciti] MFA programs [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is part of a non-profit writing center that I had heard about. Unfortunately, I have to drive an hour and fifteen minutes to get there, but it's worth it. It's only twice a month.

There must be something in Chicago. Start here...http://www.litline.org/illinks/orgs.html... it's a link to the Illinois Literary Network and lists organizations in Chicago and elsewhere.

Clench Million
Charles

Mar 16, 2006, 1:06 PM

Post #967 of 6267 (9804 views)
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Re: [greenrose] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

Greenrose: I've lived in Charlottesville my whole life (except college), so I can answer any questions you have.

It is honestly an amazing town. Maybe the best town in the country for its size (which is of course important, as cool as Cville is I'd rather be in NYC or a huge city myself). There are a lot of fun stats about the town: Second highest percent of population that reads for pleasure (after Seattle), highest percentage of Bookstores per person, highest percentage of restaurants per person, etc.

These days the music scene is booming (example of artists who have come through recently or are playing in the next two months: The Pixies, Rolling Stones, GZA, Ghostface, Wilco, Ween, Les Savy Fav, Drive-By Truckers, Neko Case, etc... and Silver Jews tonight!)

The downside of town is that UVA, while beautiful, is pretty much a frat school. Easy to avoid if you know how, but a lot of people (undergrads at least) get stuck in the frat party circles, never even seeing most of the town.

It probably isn't the best town for a writer, but it is very good (agin, for its size). A few local weeklies, the big VA Festival of the Book comes here (as does the VA film festival), tons of bookstores, several literary magazines at UVA.

...yep.

(This post was edited by Clench Million on Mar 16, 2006, 1:08 PM)

lavashlavash

Mar 16, 2006, 1:07 PM

Post #968 of 6267 (9802 views)
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Re: [poetastin] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

What was it they said that made you come to this conclusion? I'm not doubting you, just curious.

Hey, poetastin, thanks for the info, but I'm not sure I buy all of this. Often, funding is tied to things like race, but I can't imagine that Indiana would admit a far weaker candidate just to fulfill some sort of quota.

Anyway, IU's Web site features photographs of their current students and it appears to break down like this:

Asian--5
Black--7
White--22

Of course, I could have made a bunch of errors--I know Tamil kids whom many people mistake for African-American; Caucasian Hispanics, etc.

Basically, I don't think that Indiana is turning away super-talented white people to make room for crappy writers who happen to be minorities.

Anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I don't know exactly what you were told, but I just think that that kind of thinking is a bit dangerous. I mean, honestly, does every white writer at IU think that every minority in their workshop is simply a product of a quota system? I don't think so. (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, poetastin. I know you didn't say this.)

poetastin

Mar 16, 2006, 1:34 PM

Post #969 of 6267 (9774 views)
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Re: [lavashlavash] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

Anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I don't know exactly what you were told, but I just think that that kind of thinking is a bit dangerous. I mean, honestly, does every white writer at IU think that every minority in their workshop is simply a product of a quota system? I don't think so. (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, poetastin. I know you didn't say this.)

Hey Lavash. I know it's a sensitive subject. I'm not sure what there is to 'buy': based on the information Indiana provides on their web site, race is an admissions factor. Sexual orientation is an admissions factor (but presumbly, only if you are white). I can't speak to the thoughts of current students, but I'd say everyone there is a product of a quota system, because that's the way Indiana sets up their program. I draw no conclusions about quality, other than quality is not the overriding admissions concern. That is why I will not be applying.

(And not that it matters, but I checked out the *current* fiction student photo page, and maybe four people are white [of those, one or two are gay or lesbian, according to the admin], the rest are a rainbow, not limited to black or asian. Again, commendable, but I think color is a lousy yardstick for diversity. Just visit my 'highly diverse', rich neo-con high school if you don't believe me!)

(This post was edited by poetastin on Mar 16, 2006, 1:34 PM)

Clench Million
Charles

Mar 16, 2006, 1:42 PM

Post #970 of 6267 (9754 views)
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Re: [poetastin] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

I gotta agree with poe here. If Indiana SAYS (in so many words) that they do a quota system, I see no reason to not believe them.

Isn't it the Indiana Review that regualarly does minority theme issues where only latinos (or blacks or gays or whatever) can submit?

lavashlavash

Mar 16, 2006, 1:49 PM

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Re: [poetastin] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Almost everything is an admissions factor, I think. And there's no evidence on Indiana's Web site that the program has a rigid quota system, or that quality is not the most important admissions concern.

"The M.F.A. Program has a strong commitment to, and history of, diversity. Applicants to the program frequently cite the diversity of its faculty and student body as an important factor in their decision to seek admission. Currently over a third of our first-, second-, and third-year M.F.A. students are African American, Latino/a, Asian American or Native American. We have also sought to make the program a congenial and supportive environment for gay and lesbian students, international students, first-generation college students, and students who are single parents. Our program makes every effort to recruit the strongest and most diverse annual entering class of students possible and offers students of color the Neal-Marshall Graduate Fellowships in Creative Writing in addition to all of our other fellowship lines. See Fellowships and Awards for further information.
To further assist students from a variety of backgrounds, particularly those from under-represented groups, Indiana University offers a wide network of support services and programs. The M.F.A. Program believes that diversity within our writing community better prepares students for their lives as writers, and that a genuine culture of inclusion benefits all members of our community."

Anyway, I count eight or nine Caucasians of the current fiction students. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Any current Indiana students want to chime in?

poetastin

Mar 16, 2006, 1:58 PM

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Re: [lavashlavash] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

They have a commitment to skin color--not diversity. Race is a big admissions factor--it says so on their web site, for Jeebus' sake. They "recruit" minorities (but only certain minorites--certainly not Jews, or atheists?). This is the most superficial, white guilt kind of diversity imaginable. It is a quota system, probably against the law. It's all very early 90's.

lavashlavash

Mar 16, 2006, 2:09 PM

Post #973 of 6267 (10006 views)
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Re: [poetastin] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

"We have also sought to make the program a congenial and supportive environment for gay and lesbian students, international students, first-generation college students, and students who are single parents."

Only skin color?

Anyway, I think we're both projecting our own expectations and values onto that statement. If it were a rigid quota system, it would be illegal, but there's no evidence that proves that Indiana accepts a set number of minorities each year. And, besides, if there were a quota system, you know that some disgruntled WM would have sued IU by now....

PM me if you want to discuss this further; I think we've clogged up this thread enough already.

poetastin

Mar 16, 2006, 2:15 PM

Post #974 of 6267 (9982 views)
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Re: [lavashlavash] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes...sorry folks.

shadowboxer

Mar 16, 2006, 2:59 PM

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Re: [poetastin] The Waiting Game [In reply to]	Can't Post

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I would like to say that everything you've posted on this thread is a bunch of BS. Indiana, like many other schools, including Michigan, Iowa, Boston,the California schools etc. has graduate fellowships for minorities and disadvantaged students that MFA students can qualify for. This has nothing to do with the admissions process; they're simply able to fund more people.

Where does it say that race is a big factor on their website? That's right it doesn't. You saw a number of non-white people on their website and leapt to the conclusion that they aren't talented and were only accepted because of their race. It says more about you and your beliefs, which seem to be very early 60s, then it does about the Indiana program. It's funny how you seem to make such broad conclusions by looking at a website with an incomplete student listing. I wonder if you would make the same wild claims about talent and quality with a program with only white people on its website.

Indiana and a number of other programs are located in places that have been traditionally unfriendly to minorities and GLBT students: small, predominantly white towns in conservative areas. It's no wonder that they try to advertise the inclusiveness of their program. I know I wouldn't want to spend three years in that kind of environment without some incentive i.e. friendly, welcoming department and graduate community.

MFA programs are changing. Most programs want a mix of voices and styles and welcome diversity. I know it's difficult for you, but makking off-color comments and nasty accusations isn't the way to deal with it. Do better next time, please.

lavashlavash, I appreciate your comments on this thread!

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