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sonshineslocs


Aug 1, 2004, 3:49 PM

Post #1201 of 2662 (18682 views)
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Re: [lgs] Spalding University--Low Res [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks. :D


wiswriter
Bob S.
e-mail user

Aug 2, 2004, 10:45 AM

Post #1202 of 2662 (18939 views)
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Re: [marych] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for coming out of lurkspace to post this, Mary. Very timely, as my Bennington application in fiction is going out today. Bennington and VC are neck-and-neck at the top of my wish list, so the comparison is particularly welcome, especially because I was able to visit VC during the last residency and was not able to see Bennington. I'm also considering Spalding and Goddard. I'm waffling on applying to Warren Wilson, mainly because of family ties in Vermont that cause me to be there regularly anyway, making WW an extra commitment of time and money that I'm not sure would be worth the difference in reputation, which seems to be narrowing. At VC I was told by a student who'd turned down Bennington that Bennington's atmosphere is "snooty." You take that sort of thing with a pinch of salt, of course, but it does seem to be a theme that Bennington is either more serious and academic or less positive and nurturing than VC, depending on who's talking. VC is able to produce a list of student accomplishments that'll knock your eyes out. And that program has been around a long time. But Bennington as an institution has a literary history and reputation that the Union Institute & University (whatever that is) can't match. If I got in both places and couldn't decide on the merits I'd probably pick VC because it's closer to family, and you have the option of staying in a hotel for approximately the same rate as the dorms. I'm 44 and not relishing the thought of dorm living, which I wasn't crazy about when I was 18. (I have a strong affinity for solitude - still an "only child" at heart.) But it's very interesting that you would turn down a scholarship from VC to attend Bennington and that you don't seem to regret it for an instant. Thanks again for conquering those shaky hands and posting.


jjhess


Aug 2, 2004, 5:19 PM

Post #1203 of 2662 (18917 views)
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Re: [susanjoy] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm in my second year of the low-res MFA program at Queens University of Charlotte. It's a pretty new program and they are quite selective. I got accepted to other schools, but I'm so thankful I followed my instincts and picked Queens. If you're serious about writing, you owe it to yourself to look into it. There isn't a finer faculty any where.

Program:
http://www.queens.edu/...creative_writing.asp

Faculty:
http://www.queens.edu/...uate/MFA/faculty.asp

Good luck,

Jeff


marych


Aug 2, 2004, 11:18 PM

Post #1204 of 2662 (18897 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

glad if it helped. i just freaked when i looked at it and saw how long it was. i promise i'll never do that again. i have family in vermont as well--northeast kingdom--and often went up early before residency to visit. you're right; it is a haul downstate. as for dorm life--b'ton offers private rooms at least. at 38 i wasn't much up to sharing room either, so that helped. i have friends who have gradauted or are attending both goddard and vermont college and they'd do commercials for those programs just like i did, i'm sure. and you're right about the production coming from VC; that was a factor for me too. my final decision, though, hinged on the faculty i'd have a chance to work with. and that's why, even as i write my student loan check every month, i don't regret it at all. as for the "snooty," i guess i could see who it might seem that way. but i promise you--i'm as blue collar as they come--and would have hauled ass at the first sign of snooty. did i (do i) want my writing to be the best it can be? yes. do i want to constantly push and be pushed to higher and higher standards? yes. bennington (and liam loudly) dared me to be my best and then some--to set my sights and standards higher and higher--for my work, for my life as a writer. so, i reckon if that's snooty, i'm in. if i can answer anything else, let me know and best of luck. it's a great journey you're beginning, wherever it takes you. ~m


pongo
Buy this book!

e-mail user

Aug 3, 2004, 10:48 AM

Post #1205 of 2662 (18879 views)
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Re: [jjhess] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Jeff said about Queens:


In Reply To
If you're serious about writing, you owe it to yourself to look into it. There isn't a finer faculty any where.


And the point is worth reiterating. Just because you've heard of writers, and admire their work, doesn't make them good teachers. I studied with Paul Selig (among others) at Goddard, and he isn't a famous playwright. He's good, but not famous. However, he's a fabulous teacher, and did my writing a world of good. Hemingway was a famous writer, an admirable writer, but would you want him as your mentor?

dmh


wiswriter
Bob S.
e-mail user

Aug 3, 2004, 11:41 PM

Post #1206 of 2662 (18852 views)
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Re: [pongo] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

In sports the superstar players rarely make good coaches. Success came too naturally - they can't explain how they did it because they never had to figure it out.

One reason (of many) I've decided on the low-res route is that teaching is paramount, as opposed to traditional English departments where tenure is often at stake and publication is the top factor in that outcome. Most of the low-res programs ask students for detailed evaluations of the mentors, and if there isn't consistent customer satisfaction the mentor is weeded out. I'm impressed with the relatively long experience of mentors in the established low-res programs. The students I talked with at Vermont College emphasized this when I visited. I wouldn't enroll in any MFA program, low or high res, without talking to current students about the quality of the teaching.

Queens has gotten favorable reviews around here before, if I remember. But it would be a difficult fit geographically for me. And the college sweatshirt might be a shade too ironic for a gay writer.


sonshineslocs


Aug 4, 2004, 2:45 AM

Post #1207 of 2662 (18845 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

 
And the college sweatshirt might be a shade too ironic for a gay writer.


LOL! this above all else; to thine own self be true LOL!


gemlaskas
Gretchen Laskas
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Aug 4, 2004, 12:55 PM

Post #1208 of 2662 (18654 views)
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Re: [sonshineslocs] Spalding University--Low Res [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm afraid I don't know any of the specifics about Spaulding (like what sort of curriculum it has) but I do know several people who have graduated from the program and enjoyed it very much. One of my closest friends, Silas House, finished recently and I've heard nothing but good words from him.


rwt
Robert Thomas
e-mail user

Aug 4, 2004, 1:11 PM

Post #1209 of 2662 (18652 views)
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Re: [gemlaskas] Spalding University--Low Res [In reply to] Can't Post

Silas House? Come on, admit it, you made up that name. It sounds like a character out of Dickens. Welcome (back) to Speakeasy, Gretchen!


Robert
http://www.robertthomaspoems.com


gemlaskas
Gretchen Laskas
e-mail user

Aug 4, 2004, 2:16 PM

Post #1210 of 2662 (18645 views)
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Re: [rwt] Spalding University--Low Res [In reply to] Can't Post

(laughing) No one ever forgets Silas' name. I'm half convinced that is one of the reasons he sells os many books! (His third, THE COAL TATTOO comes out this fall, from Algonquin.)

And he has a website: www.silashouse.com


sonshineslocs


Aug 10, 2004, 12:27 PM

Post #1211 of 2662 (18611 views)
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Re: [gemlaskas] Spalding University--Low Res [In reply to] Can't Post

i knew that name [silas house] was familiar for a reason: i went back over the faculty for spalding and he was listed there.

one of the cool things about spalding is that the faculty has attended the iowa and vermont programs, has taught/continues to teach around the country at well known and prestigious programs, but is located in good ole kentucky--so i can go there ;)


desertmolly
Molly Thomas-Hicks
e-mail user

Aug 13, 2004, 12:34 AM

Post #1212 of 2662 (19317 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Wiswriter,

I'm a student at Bennington too and will 'second' all Marych has written above. John Rowell, who graduated from Bennington last year, has a collection of short stories called "The Music of Your Life" that is very excellent. His stories deal with homosexuality in a wonderfully sensitive and amusing way. And. . .read the blurbs on the back of his book and you'll see how nurturing the faculty at Bennington can be.

All the best with your applications,

Molly


Allen I Sherman


Aug 25, 2004, 2:11 PM

Post #1213 of 2662 (19267 views)
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Re: [desertmolly] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,
I've just graduated from Dartmouth College with a Master's degree in Arts and Liberal Studies. I'm extremely dyslexic and have ADD. When I entered Dartmouth it was suggested that I use speech-recognition software. (This background information is important).
When I began my studies, Dartmouth established a creative writing concentration within the Master's program. To qualify one had to achieve a high pass in a creative writing course. My plan had been to focus my thesis work in philosophy, but since I didn't learn to read until I was 12, and considering the culmination of my Master’s degree would include monstrous financial debt, I figured I might as well strive for a high pass in creative writing. This would be the hardest thing for me to do, and if I succeeded, any monthly payments would be worthwhile. I received the high pass in two writing courses and wrote short stories for my thesis.
After my thesis presentation the director of the Master's program, Don Pease, took me to lunch and urged me to apply to the Iowa Writers Project. He said he and my other professors would be happy to write letters of recommendation and make phone calls. His point was that my Master’s from Dartmouth is a strong degree, and coupled with an MFA from Iowa I would be able to teach at college-level. But more importantly, he felt I would make contacts in Iowa which would get my writing published. This is his perspective. For all I know my writing stinks.
Iowa is out of the question because my girlfriend of many years, (we don't like to call each other partner,) will be attending the Boston School of Fine Arts. For this reason I'm looking into low residency MFA programs.
Here are my questions:
1. Can you make "contacts" when you're only on campus for a week or 10 days every six months or so?
2. How does one choose between MFA programs? Which are high-quality and more rigorous than others? They all claim perfection, and assure you that they have an award-winning faculty, most of whom I've never heard of. Their ads never say: “Go to Borders or Barnes & Noble and view the cornucopia of mediocrity. We're mediocre, you’re mediocre, come to our program, and you too will be able to publish and fill American readers’ minds with junk."
So, how can one choose a program, given that they all purport excellence?
3. Is it difficult to get a teaching job with an MFA from a low residency program?

Sorry for being long-winded but this is all new to me. I was totally shocked when Professor Pease suggested I go to Iowa. I must say though, that the process of creating stories carries me to a wonderful and quite painful inwardness. Struggling for language, finding words with my thesauruses and polishing my sentences, is a kind of geographical exploration of experience. I find it quite addictive.

Sincerely,
Allen Sherman



edwriter



Aug 25, 2004, 4:19 PM

Post #1214 of 2662 (19259 views)
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Re: [Allen I Sherman] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, Allen:

First, congratulations on your graduation and all your accomplishments thus far. And congratulations as well on the Dartmouth director's confidence in you and your work.

About your first question--on contacts--my impression as a low-res MFA alum myself is that you can connect with people both at the residencies and through the mentoring that occurs between residencies. No, it isn't quite the same as having people stop by Iowa City (for example) all the time--but few things are. On the other hand, if you're going to be in the Boston area (as your post suggests), you are going to be in a great literary center and would probably find other opportunities to connect with writers and writing anyway.

About your last question--on teaching--what level of teaching are you thinking of? My impression here is that the MFA helps but publications matter at least as much if not more. In addition to my MFA I hold a Ph.D., and whereas it seems that "ordinary" academic subjects (such as history, the discipline in which I earned my Ph.D.) normally expect new teachers to publish their first big books _after_ they've started teaching--in other words you can still get a tenure track job while you revise your doctoral thesis--this doesn't seem to be the case for creative writers in academia.

Of course, adjuncting is another story. The MFA will probably help there (although you say you already have a master's degree?) but at the same time (and this has been covered elsewhere on this thread, I think, and perhaps on some others in the Speakeasy) low-res programs, for the most part (there are notable exceptions) don't provide the teaching experience that often accompanies the in-residence degree programs (often as part of financial aid packages). And it's always hard to be hired to teach without teaching experience. If you acquire the teaching experience elsewhere--or have it already--then that's something else again.

I've already written quite a lot here, so on your middle question--how to choose among the programs-- I'll just refer you to my recently- published ebook, a primer on low-residency MFA programs, to help with that. Please visit my website to find out about it: http://www.practicing-writer.com

Hope this helps! Good luck!


Quiet Americans: Stories
http://www.erikadreifus.com



wiswriter
Bob S.
e-mail user

Aug 25, 2004, 4:21 PM

Post #1215 of 2662 (19259 views)
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Re: [Allen I Sherman] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Allen - What an interesting story you have. To start answering your questions:

1) Some people would say you make BETTER contacts at a low-residency MFA program than at a traditional program. The faculties at the low-res programs are large, whereas at a traditional program you might have just a couple of faculty teaching in each genre. In a low-res program you will work with a different faculty member each term and connect with additional faculty during the residencies. And you will work one-on-one in a mentoring relationship with your advisor throughout each term rather than in a workshop setting with your writing "up" once or twice a semester. I have applications in to several low-res programs right now and I can tell you from the people I've talked with that "connections" are a major reason people choose the low-res route. It doesn't take long to make a meaningful connection, and five 10-day residencies is a longer time than you think. Some writers have had their careers changed from connections made at a conference lasting just a weekend. And don't forget the extensive alumni networks some of the low-res programs maintain.

2. Read through this topic and check down in the archive section for the old messages in the same topic. You'll get a good idea of which MFA programs are the best, or at least best-known. Among low-res programs there's not much dispute that Warren Wilson is tops. It's the oldest program of its kind and has the lowest admission rate; probably there's not a huge difference at this point, reputation-wise, between Warren Wilson and Iowa. The next oldest low-res program is Vermont College, which has a long, solid track record with graduates. Bennington is somewhat newer but has developed a superb reputation, perhaps second only to WW. Antioch in Los Angeles has been around for quite a few years now and several people who post here have had good experiences there. Goddard in Vermont has a well-established program with a reputation for being a little more free-form and "radical" than the other older programs. Beyond those are a host of recently established programs trying to make names for themselves. Of those, Stonecoast at the U of Southern Maine, Queens University in Charlotte and Spalding University in Louisville seem to have attracted the most attention and best reviews around here so far. Note from the latest P&W that the University of British Columbia - which is sort of the Iowa of Canada when it comes to creative writing - has just started a low-res program. (Am I missing anything?)

3. It is difficult to get a teaching job. Period. Even if you have an MFA you will need to be published, preferably in the form of at least one well-reviewed book. Some people believe the low-res MFA isn't quite equal to a traditional MFA as a teaching credential because low-res programs don't offer traditional college teaching experience. However, many grads of low-res MFA programs have gotten good jobs in academia. Low-res MFAs from established programs are legitimate graduate degrees.

Hope this helps start the ball rolling anyway.


shannp
Shann Palmer
e-mail user

Aug 31, 2004, 8:26 PM

Post #1216 of 2662 (19211 views)
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Re: [jjhess] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Jeff- what is your field? I recently met (again) Rebecca McClanahan at the West Virginia Writers Woekshop and she suggested I look into the Queens program.

I've gazed over the website twice and I admit I am intrigued- but a little put off at the thought of spemding $20,000 on myself with a son in college (with loans and Pell grant) and a 16 year old daughter in the Fine Arts High School- with god knows what college she wants in two years-

OTOH- it's much cheaper than Virginia Commonwealth University here in Richmond and sounds much friendlier-

do you hold down a job too?

shann


Shann Palmer
Support Your Local Poets!
http://groups.msn.com/FlashPaperPoetry


jjhess


Sep 1, 2004, 1:43 PM

Post #1217 of 2662 (19194 views)
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Re: [shannp] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Shann,

I'll reply via email.

Jeff


wiswriter
Bob S.
e-mail user

Oct 8, 2004, 7:38 AM

Post #1218 of 2662 (19139 views)
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Re: [desertmolly] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, Liam Rector called yesterday. I'm in at Bennington for fiction and I have a whole week to decide before they start admitting off the wait list. Letters of acceptance came on Saturday from the "regular" MFA program and the MFA in writing for children and young adults at Vermont College and they want a decision by the end of next week too. So there's no pressure or anything.

I'm delighted with the acceptances but in agony over the choice, especially with so little time to make it. And of course reality hits like a hurricane: Can I pay for this? Am I good enough, motivated enough? So long to the languorous days of "I don't feel like writing this morning." Thankfully I ended up not applying anywhere else, so at least the decision isn't going to get more complex.

The decision about whether to do an MFA in writing for young adults or "old adults" is probably something I have to figure out on my own. But if anyone has any final pearls of wisdom relating to choosing between Bennington and VC (or chickening out altogether) this would be a good time to chime in, either here or via the email button.


pongo
Buy this book!

e-mail user

Oct 8, 2004, 11:58 AM

Post #1219 of 2662 (19131 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, you're good enough. I haven't read your stuff, but the people at Vermont and Bennington have, and they really don't accept people who aren't good enough. (It's not like getting into Yale, you know; you have to show some real promise.)

Only you can say if you have the discipline, of course, but you can really only say you don't after you've tried and failed.

Of the schools, I'll just say that Montpelier is one of my very favorite towns in America. That shouldn't be a big factor for you, but maybe a small one.

dmh


desertmolly
Molly Thomas-Hicks
e-mail user

Oct 8, 2004, 1:07 PM

Post #1220 of 2662 (19127 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations on your acceptances to the programs at Vermont College and Bennington!

I can't recommend Bennington highly enough. I love the program there and I'm sure you'd benefit from the experience. The people are welcoming, the atmosphere is congenial but challenging, and the design of the low-residency format is ideal for writers who are self-motivated and disciplined.

Since you've voiced a little bit of concern over which program to choose I think you need to ask yourself what type of writing you wish to do. If your desire is to write fiction specifically for children or young adults then Vermont has a program tailored to that goal. Bennington's emphasis is reading and writing literary fiction. That said, there are plenty of writers in the program who are interested in blurring the lines between genre fiction and what is considered "literary" and they do find their place in the Vortex (as Liam calls it). And I know of at least one person who is writing a young adult novel.

Maybe it would help if you took another last, long look at the faculty of each program. Which do you most admire? Which format would be the most challenging to you?

If you choose to come to Bennington I'm sure you'll find your niche. No doubt you'd find it in Montpelier too. It's all good. All you have to do now is relax. . .and think about your reading list. . .and obsess over which faculty advisor you want. . .and what you piece of fiction you want to workshop. . .and, and, and.

Congratulations again. Enjoy!!

PS--As for wondering about the "fraud police" and whether or not you're good enough to be in either of these programs, the answer is yes. You certainly are good enough. They would not have accepted you otherwise.


elli
Ellen Meeropol

e-mail user

Oct 10, 2004, 9:36 AM

Post #1221 of 2662 (19090 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations!

I have no insight into your Vermont vs Bennington choice, but want to respond to your "chicken out altogether" comment. I'm in my second low-res fiction semester, and difficult as it is - to juggle the MFA demands with the day job and family - it is clearly the best thing I have done for myself as a writer. I can see clearly how much I've grown, how much my work has grown. And most of all, I finally see a writer when I look in the mirror.

It may not be the right time, place, whatever, but don't "chicken out altogether" without really compelling reasons!

elli


Ellen

www.ellenmeeropol.com


darredet
Darren A. Deth


Oct 11, 2004, 4:12 PM

Post #1222 of 2662 (19064 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations are indeed in order! That is fantastic.

As far as your motivation is concerned, the fact that you took so much time to complete the application process is a testament to it. Once you are in the program the motivation is just going to increase tenfold. I know whenever I've attended a writers conference it always gives me a big boost.

Take your time making your decision.

Darren


wiswriter
Bob S.
e-mail user

Oct 15, 2004, 10:52 AM

Post #1223 of 2662 (19022 views)
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Re: [desertmolly] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

The deed is done. With trembling hands I have scrawled out an intent to enroll and a deposit check to Bennington. As much as I enjoy writing for kids, and as much as I feel the publication and career prospects are better, in the end I just wasn't ready to commit myself exclusively to children's literature. I would miss O'Connor and Carver and Chekhov too much. Going to Bennington won't stop me from writing for children and young adults; on the contrary it should make me a better writer for all ages. And I'm concerned that a specialized degree in writing for children could constrain my prospects if I ever decide to pursue an academic job.

As for the choice between the "adult" programs at Vermont and Bennington, both are great, but when you're trying to decide between them, small differences become big. Vermont's enrollment is larger than Bennington's. That means at residency time there are lectures and seminars running concurrently and you have to pick between them, with the incentive being to stay within your genre. At Bennington there's one event at a time for everyone, with more camaraderie and greater opportunity for a rounded experience between fiction, nonfiction and poetry. Bennington encourages rather than prohibits genre-mixing and offers the possibility of studying outside your main area for the third term. As a journalist by trade and occasional (though lousy) poet, that loomed large in the decision versus Vermont (and Warren Wilson as well, where I ultimately didn't apply). Both Vermont and Bennington were a pleasure to work with during the admissions process, but Bennington felt just a shade more personal, with phone calls from the faculty director in addition to correspondence with the office staff. In the "adult" program at Vermont I was admitted for July but wait-listed for January, and while they're quick to say that's not a reflection on the quality of your application, the fact remains that at Bennington I'm a first choice and at Vermont I'm not.

Finally there's the incredible enthusiasm of the Bennington students and grads. I've been lurking around this forum forever, and with the possible exception of Warren Wilson I don't think there's another program, low-res or high, that inspires the consistent, unqualified praise from its students that Bennington does. The e-mails and messages from Bennington folk I received after my acceptance were inspiring. A friend of mine who's a literary editor also had great things to say about Bennington as a program that's established a name quickly in the publishing community, due in part to the literary name it had as a college before the MFA program came along.

All that being said, Vermont has a tremendous program where the students publish like mad, and there's no more inspiring setting than Montpelier (right David?). It was a really tough choice. Anyone still waiting on word from VC (Darren?), there's one more spot open for you.

It's hard to believe that after seven years of reading the MFA posts here and imagining myself in just about every program mentioned, I'm finally "hitched." Whew. Thanks to all of you who helped wittingly or unwittingly with the whole daunting thing. Any advice now from low-res people on how best to prepare for my first residency and semester would be much appreciated.


(This post was edited by wiswriter on Oct 15, 2004, 1:29 PM)


rooblue


Oct 15, 2004, 11:05 AM

Post #1224 of 2662 (19016 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations, Bob. I'm sure you made the right choice. Carver's not for children? Who knew? :-)


desertmolly
Molly Thomas-Hicks
e-mail user

Oct 15, 2004, 11:27 AM

Post #1225 of 2662 (19011 views)
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Re: [wiswriter] Looking for Grads & Students of Low-Residency MFAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations, Bob, it's good to have you in the Vortex.

You asked about what to do to prepare for your first residency. Read books by the faculty members so that you'll be comfortable when you are asked to list your preferences. Think about what you want to workshop. You'll have to send that to Cilla in December. Also, develop a tentative reading list but don't get "hitched" to it, as you say. Your advisor will also have some recommendations.

You can e-mail me privately with any other questions. I look forward to meeting you in January.

Molly

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