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lily_lee


Dec 15, 2009, 8:34 AM

Post #751 of 1018 (11431 views)
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     Re: [Junior Maas] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Thanks, guys! I'll give them a call at some point, and open the conversation with the line 'So if there's only a 1% chance of me going to do your MFA anyway, does it reduce to 0.00000001% if I tell you I'm an international student?' I'll report back...

Hmm. Wish i'd not just applied to seven top flight schools now. Oh well :)


FreakingOutInBd


Dec 15, 2009, 11:06 AM

Post #752 of 1018 (11401 views)
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     Re: [lily_lee] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Yep, please do! I'd also like to know whether I just wasted a whole lotta money and energy. And hope. Never forget hope.

Oh well. So it goes.


HarveyK


Dec 16, 2009, 6:39 PM

Post #753 of 1018 (11260 views)
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     Re: [FreakingOutInBd] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

It's all business. In principle they should say something about this on their website but they don't like many other fully funded MFA programs which rarely or probably never admit international students.


(This post was edited by HarveyK on Dec 16, 2009, 6:42 PM)


FreakingOutInBd


Dec 16, 2009, 7:42 PM

Post #754 of 1018 (11232 views)
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     Re: [HarveyK] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

I still kind of find that surprising/confusing. Given the vibe of eagerness that came through on first contact. I mean not providing funding to int'ls would indicate a lack of interest in international fiction/work, no?


bighark


Dec 16, 2009, 9:12 PM

Post #755 of 1018 (11203 views)
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     Re: [FreakingOutInBd] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

The ability to provide funding to international students depends on the nature of the institution. It shouldn't be an issue at most private schools. At state schools, maybe so. Whether a program can support international students says more about where their money comes from than their interest in international work.


HarveyK


Dec 16, 2009, 9:24 PM

Post #756 of 1018 (11196 views)
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     Re: [FreakingOutInBd] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

There's plenty of home-grown international fiction, so there's a very low demand for international writers unless you write good "China-bashing" stories or you're from war-torn areas like Bosnia or from Africa.


HarveyK


Dec 16, 2009, 9:46 PM

Post #757 of 1018 (11183 views)
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     Re: [bighark] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  


In Reply To
The ability to provide funding to international students depends on the nature of the institution. It shouldn't be an issue at most private schools. At state schools, maybe so. Whether a program can support international students says more about where their money comes from than their interest in international work.


You're probably right. At state schools, domestic students can pay in-state tuition after one year of residence, but if you're an international student, you can't, so the program has to pay for the differential in tuition fee. Many English depts won't do that, so they don't even bother with international students, although they're delighted to pocket your application fee.


Pedro Eler


Dec 17, 2009, 6:00 PM

Post #758 of 1018 (11064 views)
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     Re: [HarveyK] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  


In Reply To
It's all business. In principle they should say something about this on their website but they don't like many other fully funded MFA programs which rarely or probably never admit international students.



Well, where did you get THIS notion from?

I mean, it might be sightless true when it comes to State Universities, but even then I still think that there are many of those that are willing to accept an international student, especially if the writing is great (and let as all remember that when it comes to MFA in Creative Writing the WRITING is the MAIN thing)

When it comes to private institutions, fully funded or not, I think it does not make the sightless difference if you are an international applicant or not. Actually, I think that being an international applicant might even work for you, since then you can bring diversity into the program. And, again, it's all about the writing. If you are a good writer, they will want you in the program. I strongly don't think that Universities will simply disregard your application because you are an international student or maybe even read it but decide against it based on nationality, and I really don't understand where you got such a crazy notion from!

Anyway, it is not even fair to say something like this when you know that there are international applicants waiting for results and going through stressful times right now. I mean, what puzzles me is why you would even say something like this when there is no actual bases for it!


HarveyK


Dec 17, 2009, 7:54 PM

Post #759 of 1018 (11031 views)
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     Re: [Pedro Eler] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Pedro, my man--my barber's name is Pedro--let's not lose hope. Sorry if it sounded a little discouraging. Cheer up, man, you're right to say that "writing is the main thing."


FreakingOutInBd


Dec 17, 2009, 8:32 PM

Post #760 of 1018 (11008 views)
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     Re: [HarveyK] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Could you possibly sound a little more patronizing?

Maybe if you try, Sheesh.


FreakingOutInBd


Dec 17, 2009, 8:52 PM

Post #761 of 1018 (10999 views)
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     Re: [Pedro Eler] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Obviously I don't know about the funding situation in all the schools I'm applying to. But I do know of international students accepted in many of the programs. Indians, a Canadian Indian, a Sri Lankan, several Brits, an Aussie. And one Bangladeshi.

Most students won't even consider applying without the possibility of a full funding package - whether they're American or not. We all know how hard it is to get into any of these good programs, but we do/can apply because the possibility of full funding exists.

The better known programs do receive int'l applications every year. I find it surprising that they would continue to do so - and in some cases encourage - this with no intent of providing funding and with the intent of pocketing the measly few hundred dollars these international admission fees represent.

I'm sure you're all right and that there are schools who do not/cannot provide funding to int'l students. But I do think that they're not a large number.

I'm also surprised that in my lurking of a year and a half, this is the first time that I've heard this mentioned. Pedro and I aren't the only int'l applicants on this board or the other forums, I'm sure someone would have heard/noted this rumor. Because that is what this is right? A rumor? Does anyone have any hard facts?

At any rate - we're all deep into application season. The time to draw our attention to this information is past. We're all done with or in the process of finishing off our applications. It's a done deal.


Pedro Eler


Dec 18, 2009, 7:51 AM

Post #762 of 1018 (10946 views)
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     Re: [FreakingOutInBd] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Obviously I don't know about the funding situation in all the schools I'm applying to. But I do know of international students accepted in many of the programs. Indians, a Canadian Indian, a Sri Lankan, several Brits, an Aussie. And one Bangladeshi.

Most students won't even consider applying without the possibility of a full funding package - whether they're American or not. We all know how hard it is to get into any of these good programs, but we do/can apply because the possibility of full funding exists.

The better known programs do receive int'l applications every year. I find it surprising that they would continue to do so - and in some cases encourage - this with no intent of providing funding and with the intent of pocketing the measly few hundred dollars these international admission fees represent.

I'm sure you're all right and that there are schools who do not/cannot provide funding to int'l students. But I do think that they're not a large number.

I'm also surprised that in my lurking of a year and a half, this is the first time that I've heard this mentioned. Pedro and I aren't the only int'l applicants on this board or the other forums, I'm sure someone would have heard/noted this rumor. Because that is what this is right? A rumor? Does anyone have any hard facts?

At any rate - we're all deep into application season. The time to draw our attention to this information is past. We're all done with or in the process of finishing off our applications. It's a done deal.



Exactly, for many of you guys this is over with, so what is the point of raising such an issue now! I'm applying next year and I've been doing research for the past year, and so far I have not encounter a single person, american or not, that shares this point of view. Actually, everyone seems to encourage me to try. Let's not pretend it will be easy, but I realy don't see this scret plot to cash in application money from international students all around the world! I mean, it sounds ridiculous. When I was at the US, I talked to the director of the North Carolina State University, and even tough it was a State University, he was very open to international students, and while I was talking to him he introduce me to two (TWO) international students (from China and India). And he also said that the fact that I am Brazilian might even work for me since he could not remember ever seing an aplicant from Brazil. And ever since I came back to Brazil and have been calling people and doing research I have not encounter a single person that share this view tha international applicants won't be considered. And I ask the same as you, FreakingOutInBd, where are the facts?? So far this just seem like a very very stupid notion!


karinr
Karin Rosman


Dec 18, 2009, 1:35 PM

Post #763 of 1018 (10881 views)
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     Re: [Pedro Eler] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

I would imagine that having international MFA students would only add to the experience. It would be great to discuss literature with people from other countries. Good luck.


Tabby


e-mail user

Dec 18, 2009, 4:51 PM

Post #764 of 1018 (10828 views)
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     Re: [HarveyK] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Montana specifically did NOT fund anyone in state. The idea was to use TAships to lure writers, and that in staters could afford the tuition.

OU seems to encourage international applicants (especially undergrad but also grad), and we have a goodly number in the English department.


http://www.kellykathleenferguson.com


prosaic70


Dec 19, 2009, 10:19 PM

Post #765 of 1018 (10728 views)
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     Re: [Pedro Eler] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Pedro Eler and FreakingOutinBd,

Don't worry about it. I'm an international student and I got into 6-7 programs fully-funded when I applied. Being international had pretty much nothing to do with my application decision and it was never mentioned by anyone.


Pedro Eler


Dec 20, 2009, 11:24 AM

Post #766 of 1018 (10671 views)
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     Re: [prosaic70] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Pedro Eler and FreakingOutinBd,

Don't worry about it. I'm an international student and I got into 6-7 programs fully-funded when I applied. Being international had pretty much nothing to do with my application decision and it was never mentioned by anyone.



Well, now these are facts. Thanks prosaic70, you just proved my point that being an international applicant has nothing to do with whether or not you get accepted.


jamie_mu


Dec 20, 2009, 6:18 PM

Post #767 of 1018 (10607 views)
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     Re: [Pedro Eler] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

RE: UC Irvine's funding international students: it just takes a google search:

http://www.humanities.uci.edu/english/programs/grad_faq.php#SUB100

But if you don't want to look at the site:

"Teaching Assistantships and fellowships are limited and provide only partial funding. The current stipend is approximately $16,636.98 per year for those teaching one course each term plus a partial fee offset.) For these reasons, we usually are unable to support foreign nationals who do not have independent funding for the duration of their course of study (such as a Fulbright Fellowship, a governmental fellowship from their home country or private funding)."

This may just be for the PhD program. I don't recall when talking to the director of UCI's MFA program if there is some funding other than what is given by the Englsih Dept, or if the two depts (MFA and PhD) are separate. I know at UC Davis all the funding comes from the same source.

So, if you are an international student who is accepted into the program at UCI they will pay you, but not nearly enough to cover the out of state tuition, which is only going to get pricier since the UC system is having budget problems and tuition is going 30% in the next six months.

One other thing about the structure of the program at UCI: You teach fall and winter quarters and are technically on fellowship for spring, giving you more time to write. Also, as of last March, they were offering a one year teaching position once you graduated. This is awesome, essentially funding you for an additional year with limited teaching responsibilities and time and money to finish your ms.

A strange juxtaposition of good news and bad.

I think this particular funding issue is specific to public schools. This is in no way a problem at private schools where funding has nothing to do with budgets and tuitions are the same no matter where you are from.

My advice is to call. Call the schools you are worried about and ask if tuition (not funding) is the same for international students, and if it's not ask if the program's funding will cover tuition for international students.


kbritten

e-mail user

Dec 20, 2009, 8:44 PM

Post #768 of 1018 (10566 views)
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     Notre Dame [In reply to]  

I've been trying to keep myself occupied during the wait and so began reading some of the work from alums of the schools on my list. Notre Dame has a literary journal for students and graduates of the program and posted a copy online: http://www.nd.edu/~alcwp/The%20Bend/documents/08bend.pdf It's insightful for those interested.


(This post was edited by kbritten on Dec 20, 2009, 8:45 PM)


WanderingTree


Dec 20, 2009, 10:17 PM

Post #769 of 1018 (10542 views)
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     Re: [kbritten] Notre Dame [In reply to]  

Cool. I didn't realize Tony D'Souza went to ND. I love his work. Another ND alum that I came across is Evan Kuhlman. He wrote a book called "Wolfboy" that integrated a graphic novel into an otherwise normal novel.


lily_lee


Dec 22, 2009, 3:03 AM

Post #770 of 1018 (10435 views)
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     Re: [jamie_mu] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  


In Reply To
RE: UC Irvine's funding international students: it just takes a google search:

http://www.humanities.uci.edu/english/programs/grad_faq.php#SUB100

But if you don't want to look at the site:

"Teaching Assistantships and fellowships are limited and provide only partial funding. The current stipend is approximately $16,636.98 per year for those teaching one course each term plus a partial fee offset.) For these reasons, we usually are unable to support foreign nationals who do not have independent funding for the duration of their course of study (such as a Fulbright Fellowship, a governmental fellowship from their home country or private funding)."

This may just be for the PhD program. I don't recall when talking to the director of UCI's MFA program if there is some funding other than what is given by the Englsih Dept, or if the two depts (MFA and PhD) are separate. I know at UC Davis all the funding comes from the same source.

So, if you are an international student who is accepted into the program at UCI they will pay you, but not nearly enough to cover the out of state tuition, which is only going to get pricier since the UC system is having budget problems and tuition is going 30% in the next six months.

One other thing about the structure of the program at UCI: You teach fall and winter quarters and are technically on fellowship for spring, giving you more time to write. Also, as of last March, they were offering a one year teaching position once you graduated. This is awesome, essentially funding you for an additional year with limited teaching responsibilities and time and money to finish your ms.

A strange juxtaposition of good news and bad.

I think this particular funding issue is specific to public schools. This is in no way a problem at private schools where funding has nothing to do with budgets and tuitions are the same no matter where you are from.

My advice is to call. Call the schools you are worried about and ask if tuition (not funding) is the same for international students, and if it's not ask if the program's funding will cover tuition for international students.


Hey, thanks, jamie_mu. I searched for something like that but i'm obviously blind/kind of dumb (and therefore am not really expecting to get into Irvine anyway). I'm still gonna call them once I've finished all my applications to verify what's what. Good point about the UC budget problems too...(and that third year!)

Note to other international applicants, Gussy, who's on the Amherst MFA, funded with a teaching assistantship for its three year duration, and an Argentinian, and who was around this board the last couple of years, has reassured me that international student status makes no difference to acceptance/funding in pretty much 99% of MFA programs. The ONLY one I was querying was Irvine. Which is very much clarified now. So we're cool. Now it would be nice to get in somewhere ;)


lily_lee


Dec 22, 2009, 3:13 AM

Post #771 of 1018 (10432 views)
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     Re: [lily_lee] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Also, i'm not saying the dude is the authority. But he definitely knew what was up. And other than my minor Irvine jitters, i'm not stressed about my being an international student affecting the other six places i applied to negatively; I've never heard of such a thing and don't expect it to. I'm sure/I hope we'll all be fine! :)


(This post was edited by lily_lee on Dec 22, 2009, 3:19 AM)


jamie_mu


Dec 22, 2009, 10:57 AM

Post #772 of 1018 (10382 views)
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     Re: [lily_lee] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

Remember Lily, and everyone else, that the link brings you to the FAQ about UCI's PhD program. I think the funding for both programs comes from the same source, but I don't know for sure, that's why I recommend calling.

That's good news about Amherst, but over the last six months I've heard many horror stories about the lack of funding. Most of the teaching spots are locked up by the senior students in both the MFA and PhD programs, so the few remaining positions are very competitive, with I think about 20 or so first-year MFA students and 15 first-year PhD students all applying for the same few jobs. And I know quite a few of the PhD students are coming with MA and teaching experience, which gives them an edge.

But I also know that there are ways to find funding outside of the writing program. There are TAships in other departments. The only problem with finding funding outside the writing program is that you usually don't know until a few weeks before starting the program that you have a job. So essentially you will have to matriculate (I think $500), move to the area, sign up for classes, all before knowing whether or not you have a job. It's risky.

It would be nice if someone currently in the program chimed in. All this information is coming to me from secondary sources (my partner is a first year PhD), so I can't say any of this with great authority.


lily_lee


Dec 22, 2009, 11:11 AM

Post #773 of 1018 (10372 views)
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     Re: [jamie_mu] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Remember Lily, and everyone else, that the link brings you to the FAQ about UCI's PhD program. I think the funding for both programs comes from the same source, but I don't know for sure, that's why I recommend calling.

That's good news about Amherst, but over the last six months I've heard many horror stories about the lack of funding. Most of the teaching spots are locked up by the senior students in both the MFA and PhD programs, so the few remaining positions are very competitive, with I think about 20 or so first-year MFA students and 15 first-year PhD students all applying for the same few jobs. And I know quite a few of the PhD students are coming with MA and teaching experience, which gives them an edge.

But I also know that there are ways to find funding outside of the writing program. There are TAships in other departments. The only problem with finding funding outside the writing program is that you usually don't know until a few weeks before starting the program that you have a job. So essentially you will have to matriculate (I think $500), move to the area, sign up for classes, all before knowing whether or not you have a job. It's risky.

It would be nice if someone currently in the program chimed in. All this information is coming to me from secondary sources (my partner is a first year PhD), so I can't say any of this with great authority.


Thanks for the info and reply, jamie_mu. Very interesting, and slightly terrifying. Just a quick question though, as I got a little lost - are you talking about Amherst in particular in your final three paragraphs? I presume you are, and if so, yikes! That's kind of scary. I will have to wait and see what happens. The idea of getting in and going without a guarantee of funding isn't nice.


lily_lee


Dec 22, 2009, 11:36 AM

Post #774 of 1018 (10365 views)
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     Re: [lily_lee] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

I've just re-read it - it's obvious you're talking about Amherst. Oh well. As I said, I'll have to see how it all pans out...


WanderingTree


Dec 22, 2009, 12:12 PM

Post #775 of 1018 (10355 views)
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     Re: [lily_lee] Choosing an MFA Program (2009) & (2010) - International Applicants [In reply to]  

I'm taking a similar funding risk with one program I'm applying to - Notre Dame. Although if I get into that program (without a teaching assistantship or some other kind of stipend related fellowship) and decide to go, I'll likely be moving to South Bend months in advance to find a part-time job and/or explore other campus opportunities at ND and its sister schools in the area.

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