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HopperFu

Jan 9, 2007, 1:08 PM

Post #251 of 764 (4440 views)
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Re: [renapoo] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

[edited to add: given that I sort of suggested doing this, I'm embarrased that I didn't step up to the bar first. The only excuse was that I was busy this morning. Writing. Heh.]

I tried to find my list from last year and couldn't so here are a few. Upfront, I'll start with Cornell, since I'm biased toward it for any number of reasons, but these are some of the schools that I would encourage EVERY applicant to at least consider:

Cornell
Good: BEST FUNDING of any program I know of, very good faculty (though not many huge names) with ridiculously high ratio of faculty to students (there are eight students and this year eight fiction faculty to choose from for committees) that means faculty are extremely generous with their time (plus most of them are incredibly nice), supportive environment, very reasonable workload, decent name recognition among industry, most selective program in country (increases your chance of strong colleagues), cool town, associated with extremely well-regarded lit mag
Bad: We don't have as many huge name writers on faculty.

Okay, so after Cornell, I'll try to tier it:

Reputation

Iowa
Good: biggest, baddest of them all. Iowa name gets you noticed. Current faculty includes two Pulitzer Prize winners, plus Ethan Canin (who people rave about) and Samantha Chang (who I have worked with, and she's excellent), at the very least you should apply so that you know that you tried (plus, if you get in and turn it down, it's kind of a cool feeling)
Bad: huge entering class (25 each for poetry / fiction), funding is uneven, many students have reported profs as being unavailable outside of workshop, alum have either loved or absolutly hated it, associated English program unremarkable at best

Columbia
Good: publishing history, some big name profs, location means that if you are at all decent with networking, you'll meet people
Bad: minimal funding combined with huge tuition plus cost of living means that you may graduate $100k in debt. Huge entering class. Some reputation for cut-throatedness (as in mean, not as in honest critiquing, though I'm not sure how accurate that is)

Places to be Happy

Cornell

Michigan
Good: good rep as well, Peter Ho Davis spoken of with reverence, very good funding, people love Ann Arbor
Bad: no real star power on faculty

Alabama
I don't know a lot about the program, but one writer who does a lot of visiting gigs said she's never been to a place where the students seemed happier

Virginia
Good: faculty, funding? (sort of: see bad)
Bad: funding? (it was a little unclear to me, but I believe that it is almost impossible to get proper funding the first year if you are out of state)

Wash U in St. Louis
Good: faculty (not big names in fiction), funding, small and supportive program
Bad: no real publishing history that I'm aware of, St. Louis doesn't exactly rock

Off the top of my head, those are some of the programs that I'd suggest people look at....

(This post was edited by HopperFu on Jan 9, 2007, 1:13 PM)

Clench Million
Charles

Jan 9, 2007, 1:16 PM

Post #252 of 764 (4430 views)
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Re: [jargreen] Lists that actually matter [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

e places simply too much emphasis on funding. I believe that his reasoning for Iowa's being about ten to fifteen spots lower than I, and most of the writing world, think it should be is that the competitive funding creates some sort of disharmony.

My major issue with Kealey's rankings, other than the issue I explianed above, is that I'm unsure of why he punishes some schools but not others for similar funding. I see him and others rag on Iowa for tiered funding, which is justifiable even if I'm not convinced it is much of a problem, but I've never seen him attack other programs that give out different funding. UMass Amherst, NYU, etc. there are a lot of programs that Kealey speaks highly of which fully fund some students and don't fund others. Why does Iowa get knocked down so far and these others don't?

ecphraticknolls

Jan 9, 2007, 1:21 PM

Post #253 of 764 (4425 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Okay, I’ll play too.

1. Iowa Writer's Workshop
I -really- like Mark Levine, and I’m also interested in working with Robert Hass. The reputation. I also am interested in taking classes in the English Department’s Modernism concentration

2. University of Oregon
Garret Hongo and Joseph Millar. Mmmm. Also John Lysaker, Peter Warnek in the philosophy program. I also really like the area.

3. University of Washington
Richard Kenney and Linda Bierds. Good location.

4.University of Florida
I would like the challenge of taking a class under William Logan. Sidney Wade is also interesting.

5. Colorado State
Simply because I people who go here seem to have really gotten a lot out of the program. Maybe not as high of a reputation as others--but I would really enjoy going here, I think.

FSU, Notre Dame, Indiana, Montana and Michigan also caught my eye for various reasons. Faculty first, funding second. Also, Michener… reputation and funding.

schambers1980

Jan 9, 2007, 1:34 PM

Post #254 of 764 (4418 views)
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Re: [ecphraticknolls] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't want to say that you guys are being neurotic... but you guys are being neurotic.

laughingman

Jan 9, 2007, 1:35 PM

Post #255 of 764 (4417 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] Lists that actually matter [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think I touched on this a few pages ago--It's because of Iowa's visibility. There are unhappy students in every program, I'm sure, but the only ones that you hear about are the unhappy students at Iowa--consequently, it gets blown up and everyone thinks that there is some huge disharmony issue at Iowa, when everything I've been given to understand from iowa students in the last few years (from a friend, from this site, and from some blogs on the net) is that things are mostly copesetic.

I've heard rumor there were some tensions among classes in the early- and mid-nineties, but, c'mon. That was ten years ago. You can bet I'd be pretty effing flattered if I got an offer for one of the last-tier funding spots at the writers' workshop.

Also (and I touched on this a few pages ago, too), it's kind of funny to think that the way the Kealey Scale works, the only thing Iowa would have to do to climb up to a top-five slot would be slash its acceptances. They give out enough money to fully fund ten students or so if they cut the other fifteen acceptances, and then those ten are happy happy happy and the fifteen malcontents who had the sub-par funding suddenly have a different complaint... Personally, I'd take the lackluster funding and spend my time worrying about soaking up the genius from the pulitzer prize winners, the famous visiting writers, and the new literati of my generation.

-laugher

Clench Million
Charles

Jan 9, 2007, 1:45 PM

Post #256 of 764 (4405 views)
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Re: [HopperFu] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well since I'm here, I might as well post my thoughts on the best schools.
I'm not going to rank them, I'm just going to post what strike me as the elite in no order.
So The Top Tier (in no order)

Iowa. Pros: What needs to be said? Along with UCI and Columbia, a school whose name dropping apparntly gets you out of the slush pile at many magazines. The faculty is quality and well regarded. The publication history of students is superb and the number of amazing writers it has produces is crazy. An MFA degree doesn't provide you with many tangible benefits, but Iowa seems like a name that will give you concrete help if you continue in the literary world. Also, unlike Hopper, I like its class size. Well regarded in all three genres.

Cons: Bad location, not the best funding although cheap in state tuition. Honestly, I feel like Iowa has started to really narrow itself aesthetically. The student work seems to be all in that character driven realism with ephiphany ending post-Carver school. Nothing wrong with that stuff, but I'd prefer more diversity of faculty and students. The university in genreal is weak.

UVA. Pros: Small, but quality faculty. The town is great, maybe the best college town of its size in the country. Seriously. Good funding whose details I forget. The university itself is great with lots of resources.

Cons: I don't think there are any outright cons to UVA. There are, for my money, better locations, better faculties and such, but UVA isn't bad in any areas.

Cornell. Pros: The one school I'd add to my applications if I had to do it again. Amazing funding, good faculty, students seem happy and the student boyd seems strong, great university.

Cons: For my money, the class size is way too small. Like Hopper said, the faculty could be a little bigger in names. Location isn't the greatest, though not bad.

Columbia. Pros: Every aspect of this program is excellent except for the funding. The faculty is the best for my money (lots of hip interesting authors like Lipsyte, Marcus, LaFarge as well as more established and traditional writers like Maureen Howard and Richard Ford), the location is top notch and being there really plugs you into the literary and publishing worlds if you wish to be, the student body is like the faculty, very diverse stylistically. Publication history of students is right up there with Iowa. Associated university is excellent. Excellent in poetry, fiction and non-fiction.

Cons: The class size is a little too large. Would be perfect at 2/3rds its size. Funding is very weak, although things are improving under Marcus.

UCI. Pros: I don't know too much about this program, but its always listed with Columbia and Iowa as the best in reputation these days and the publication history is top notch. Small program, but a lot of good writers coming out of it. Good funding.

Cons: Horrible (for my money) location. The associated unversity doesn't really stack up against most of the others on this list.

Texas/Michener Center. Pros: This school seems to have forced itself into the top with Michener centers amazing funding. Great location and funding.

Cons: Who teaches here?

Michigan-Ann Arbor. Pros: Seems like a strong school in every area. Good reputation, good faculty, good funding.

Cons: Not the best location and not the best university on the list.

---

Those seven are what strike me as the top tier.
I don't know what the second tier would be, but it would include these:
Brown (maybe too narrow of a focus to be in the top tier), Johns Hopkins (departure of Dixon really hurts its fiction in my eyes) and Syracuse.

renapoo

Jan 9, 2007, 2:04 PM

Post #257 of 764 (4393 views)
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In Reply To

Virginia
Good: faculty, funding? (sort of: see bad)
Bad: funding? (it was a little unclear to me, but I believe that it is almost impossible to get proper funding the first year if you are out of state)

No, UVA's funding is good! Something like $7500 stipend and a tuition waver for ALL first-year fiction writers and something like $16,000 & a waver for poets (because they accept fewer of them). Then in the second year everybody teaches either a cw class or a comp class and gets paid, I dunno, $10,000-ish? (i think it varies from year to year)

HopperFu

Jan 9, 2007, 2:27 PM

Post #258 of 764 (4382 views)
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Re: [renapoo] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ah, I'll defer to you. I ended up not applying last year. I thought you had to pay tuition out of your stipend, which is reasonable if you are in state, but not so much out of state... I didn't look super closely.

SweetJane

Jan 9, 2007, 3:26 PM

Post #259 of 764 (4362 views)
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In Reply To

According to the website, no tuition waivers are given. Instead, the stipend covers all of the tuition and "allows for a stipend." Since tuition costs are different for in-state/out-of-state students, I would imagine that there is a sizable difference in the size of the stipend after tuition costs. I have no idea what the difference is, though. The confusion over the funding there is, for me, the only draw back in a program I have otherwise fallen in love with (it has quickly become my top choice, and I'll totally cry if I don't get in).

Here's my list of my-top-choices-and-why. Keep in mind that funding and location are huge concerns for me.

University of Virginia - Love just about everything about it. Great, exciting location in an area of the country where I've always wanted to live that's only six hours (rather than a world) away from my significant other. Low cost of living. Promising funding. Nice, moderate program size. Great faculty. Solid reputation. Only drawback is that I'm not entirely clear how much of a stipend I'll have left over after paying for tuition fees as an out-of-state student, and I don't want to take out loans to attend an MFA program. On the other hand, I saw someone on this board indicate that the course load might be light enough in the first year to pick up a part time job. With several years of waitressing experience under my belt, I might still be able to squeak by.

University of Wisconsin - Location! Madison sounds like an amazing place to live. Low cost of living, and if I want to rough it and live really cheaply, there are plenty of coops in the city. Good funding (full tuition waiver, health care, 12000 a year stipend). I'm not really that impressed by the faculty, though, and the teeny tiny program size could either be wonderful or awful.

University of Oregon - Again, location--see just about everything written about Madison above. Funding is great. I have heard some iffy things about faculty feuds, and I really only like Dorianne Laux's poetry. And although I love the idea of the west coast, home sickness is a concern for me.

University of Florida - Logan! I love the idea of studying under someone who tells it like it is. Location seems okay. The website has alumni postings, and I get the feeling that there is a terrific community between students. But, the website is also shoddily designed and I found it impossible to get anyone on the phone in both the English and grad departments when I had some questions about the program. I already attended one state school plagued by red-tape, and I'm not too sure if I want to attend another.

Also applying to, and feeling less enthusiastic about: U Wash (Seattle), U Montana, U Iowa.

So, there you go. I'm not sure if this is helpful to anyone who's not a liberal, "hippy dippy" (as my very New York sister puts it) poet. I'm certainly sure that a lot of people would never consider the availability of cooperative housing when they tally the cost of living in a city! If nothing else, I guess this is an indication of how subjective this all is.

SJ

"Oh, all the poets they studied rules of verse
and those ladies, they rolled their eyes"

renapoo

Jan 9, 2007, 3:52 PM

Post #260 of 764 (4346 views)
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In Reply To

According to the website, no tuition waivers are given. Instead, the stipend covers all of the tuition and "allows for a stipend."

Ah, my bad. I was just reading the Nov/December P&W and it says: "Although the stipends vary slightly from year to year, depending on the number of in-state students, all students receive a tuition remission and free health insurance." But I guess I mis-read "remission" as "waiver." I'm not really sure what "remission" means, to be honest.

Oh well! I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers and see how much money they have available this year.

Lglabor

Jan 9, 2007, 4:27 PM

Post #261 of 764 (4334 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In the interests of beefing up the "everyone has her own set of criteria" camp, I'll list a few of my favorites. They are Indiana, Brooklyn College, Southern Illinois, and the new programs at Rutgers-Newark and Queens College-CUNY. For me, the ideal program has a faculty of great writers of whom at least as many are women as men and at least as many are people of color as white, and a good many of whom are writers whose work has a progressive political bent. The ideal program is geared, or at least explicitly welcoming toward, student writers from working-class backgrounds, students of many nationalities, and older students with life experience. I think UMass-Amherst may also belong on my list but I'm not sure; I love that Chris Bachelder, an exciting young novelist whose work is very political, is now there, and I have a vague memory that Martin Espada is too but I may be wrong on this.

On the one hand I do like the view some have expressed that we should put together our top choices list based on our own sets of critera (like the ones I've listed for myself above, which seem to be different than those of most others on this board), and then, once that list is in place, go through and figure out the finances. On the other hand, the reality is that most of us regular working people who write and would love to study writing can't possibly seek an MFA without serious financial support so funding can become the single most important criterion, forcing us to apply to programs that otherwise aren't so appealing. However, it's not as either-or as all that, I think. My impression is that several of the schools that meet my criteria offer pretty decent packages.

Clench Million
Charles

Jan 9, 2007, 5:51 PM

Post #262 of 764 (4312 views)
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Re: [SweetJane] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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University of Virginia....Low cost of living.

I must say that cost of living is something that always confuses me. Prior to moving to NYC to go to Columbia I was living in Charlottesville and living a similar lifestyle (most of my friends were UVA grad students), however I was pretty much spending the same amount of money. Several times in this thread and in real life I've heard people say how insane the cost of living in NYC, but I honestly can't tell what that means. My rent at Columbia is only about 75 dollars more than my rent in Charlottesville and while one can certainly find a cheap place with multiple roomates in Charlottesville, I know people doing the same in NYC. Pizza is two bucks a slice in both places, groceries are about the same. Restaurants are pretty much the same, if you ignore the insanely expensive NYC ones. You have to take a subway in NYC, but you have to own a car in a town like Charlottesville which is more expensive. Beer is a buck more at a bar in NYC though.

I put UVA in my top 8 programs and I love Charlottesville, so I'm not knocking it here. I'm just surprised to see Charlottesville listed as a low cost of living area. I don't really see how living there would cost much less than NYC, at least if you are living a typical 20s/30s grad school life (which you might very well not be.)

Is cost of living calculated by what the average amount spent is? Or by what the cheapest comfortable living would be? Sorry if this is a little off topic, just something that struck me.

EDIT:

You know what, I just looked this up and Charlottesville has the highest cost of living in Virginia after NoVa and while Manhattan is higher, the other bouroughs of NYC are lower. Guess that clears up my confusion and I guess you shouldn't expect a low cost of living at UVA.

(This post was edited by Clench Million on Jan 9, 2007, 6:07 PM)

SweetJane

Jan 9, 2007, 6:53 PM

Post #263 of 764 (4296 views)
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I'm basing cost-of-housing primarily on information gleaned from craigslist and from being familiar with NYC housing costs. I have no problem sharing rooms or living farther from campus to cut down on costs, and that definitely has an impact on how-cheap things will be. Those I know living in New York City (my sister, in Long Island City, Queens, sharing a 1bdrm and my best friend, living in Williamsburg, sharing a 3bdrm railroad) are both paying over six hundred dollars a month before utilities for their shared rooms, and my sister has had no luck finding a decent 2 bedroom in Queens or Brooklyn for less than $1500.

In contrast, a quick browsing of Charlottesville craigslist seems to present quite a few options in the $300-$400 range. Of course, the cheapest places are outside of Charlottesville (I spotted a 3 bedroom farmhouse a half hour outside of the city for $650 total a few days ago). In any case, haven't looked at the overall cost of living, but it seems to me that you get a little more flexibility in housing in Charlottesville than you would in NYC. Also, it seems to me that gentrification is having a serious impact on rents in the more accessible parts of Queens and Brooklyn and I wouldn't be surprised if, over the next few years, cost of housing increased dramatically in those areas.

You're probably very well right about the cost of everything else, though. Since I'm already paying New Yorkish prices for food and transportation in New Jersey (well, more for transportation, since I have a car), my more immediate concern for comparing budgets is rent--I'm pretty much used to paying an arm and a leg to eat!

(As a note, I just took a look a cursory glance at some cost of living information, and while prices might be similar, Charlottesville's much lower retail tax would definitely have a positive impact on going out to eat and the like. Though it would screw up my ability to calculate a tip.)

SJ

"Oh, all the poets they studied rules of verse
and those ladies, they rolled their eyes"

__________

Jan 9, 2007, 7:51 PM

Post #264 of 764 (4282 views)
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Re: [SweetJane] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wost. Thread. Ever.

six five four three two one 0 ->

augustmaria

Jan 9, 2007, 8:07 PM

Post #265 of 764 (4273 views)
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Re: [Junior Maas] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

It frustrates me when comments like these are made. It just makes the whole thing even less productive, and I thought that this thread was looking up. I'm enjoying reading all the different lists. Keep them coming!

jargreen

Jan 9, 2007, 8:21 PM

Post #266 of 764 (4268 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] Lists that actually matter [In reply to]	Can't Post

>>If you want to justify your tone against Jargreen (the initial attacker?), ok. But because you thought jargreen was a meanie doesn't mean you should insult HooperFu and every other poster.<<

And I was being nice and supportive of umass76 and his rankings! I merely came to the conclusion that I'm more interested in rankings based upon reputation for excellence, as decided by a panel of creative writing experts. When my preference was attacked as being, somehow, mathematically unreliable and, in fact, biased, I came back with some very fine rebuttals, in my opinion, most of which were NOT responded to. But I've always said that the Kealey list factors in all sorts of variables that make it extremely helpful for folks who haven't done all that research.

Okay, moving on ...

Aubrie

Jan 9, 2007, 8:39 PM

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Re: [augustmaria] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree augustmaria. I thought we could try and steer the conversation away from the bickering about Kealey/umass rankings and move towards something that would be (more? even a little bit?) helpful for future applicants.

And I think so far everyone's lists have been really insightful. So I suggest to keep them coming as well.

Fear&Loathing

Jan 9, 2007, 8:51 PM

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Re: [Junior Maas] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ain't that the truth.

Rambler

Jan 9, 2007, 9:03 PM

Post #269 of 764 (4249 views)
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Re: [augustmaria] Shall we try? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree with augustmaria. I was really scrolling along enjoying the ride, hearing about everybody's hopeful schools and glad to see some fellow lurkers jumping in the game. I offer my support.

1. Northwestern Univ. - For purely personal reasons. The program is pretty new, an MFA in Writing for the Screen and Stage. NU is reputable and in a cool part of Illinois (Chicago's northern neighbor, Evanston). And I like the double concentration. Plus, I'm a Cubs fan.

2. Warren Wilson - For fiction. I live in SC, so even for a low-res., this would be incredibly convenient.

3. Queens - For fiction or stage and/or screen writing. Any info on this program would be valued. Their deadline is coming in March.

That's it for me. My decision making comes down to the life logistics as well as reputation. My husband is finishing a Ph.D., so the only place I'd move is to Chicago, where I grew up. Also, as far as I'm aware, there is only one MFA program offered in Creative Writing in SC. And I don't live close to Columbia.

I read this post religiously. And I find the posts incredibly helpful. So while my list might not make sense to any other readers, I want to put it out there as a show of support for the game.

jargreen

Jan 9, 2007, 9:55 PM

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My Schools [In reply to]	Can't Post

Here are the eight schools to which I applied, listed in order of how badly I want to be accepted:

1. Michigan ... One great professor can change your life in areas that you never thought needed change. Maybe Peter Ho Davies will be that professor, maybe he won't. Otherwise, the funding is amazing, it's five hours from my family, Ann Arbor seems like a nice little town, and Detroit (a ghetto paradise that is oddly majestic and stimulating to me) is a half-hour away.
2. Florida ... I love, love, love this faculty (Padget Powell, David Leavitt, Mary Robison). And I love, love, love the beach.
3. Johns Hopkins ... Stephen Dixon's leaving is very poopy news, but perhaps he'll drop by for a visit. I can't wait to call Baltimore my home; it is a beeeeautiful fucking city. But this school is here mainly because of the name, I have to admit.
4. Washington U in St. Louis ... This program is all about letting you write. Just write. Plus, the architecture on campus is really lovely. St. Louis may be the nation's most violent big city, but it has a remarkable literary history (Twain Chopin Eliot Tennessee Williams Burroughs Nemerov Marianne Moore Inge Angelou Franzen Pulitzer).
5. UMass ... I can't wait to live in New England. Plus, I am liking this faculty the more and more I hear about them.
6. Bowling Green State ... A peaceful location for writing, a great program for teaching. They keep spitting out MFA program directors (Indiana, Alabama, Massachusetts, more to come).
7. Illinois ... A five-year-old program that funds every student, has a large and diverse faculty, and is associated with a top-notch English department. And it's like 90 minutes from my mommy.
8. Southern Illinois ... This is, I suppose, my safe school. I have a friend who goes there and loves it. They fully fund all students and offer great teaching opportunities. But Carbondale doesn't have any great ghettos.

I must say, if I'm not able to go to a school that communes peacefully with nature, then I want a school that is within driving distance of the most devastated slums. You may wonder about my fascination with impoverished innercity places (or my choice to continue to refer to them as "ghettos"). Abandoned buildings and neglected streets are, to me, full of stories: What kind of lives used to be lived there? How are the people there now different from the people that were there before? Why did things change? What does the future hold? What other secrets are concealed beneath those consuming images? (But for all the inspiration that I extract from the innercity, I can't say that I haven't paid some of my dues there; in a previous lifetime, working to provide social services and to organize in the iconic slums of Indianapolis.)

Here are the schools that I seriously considered but did not apply to, and the reasons why:

Iowa ... This I regret immensely. I was completely duped by the negative hype started by Tom Kealey and some disgruntled (unsuccessful, I presume) graduates. I would pay a $250 late fee if I could apply by the end of the week.
Indiana ... I love Bloomington dearly, but I got to get out of this place.
Minnesota ... I was scared by the cold. Has global warming hit Minneapolis yet?
Arizona ... I truly believe that their funding does not warrant my traveling 2000 miles to go to school.
Oregon ... I truly believe that their faculty does not warrant my traveling 2400 miles to go to school.
Arizona St., Colorado St. ... These also were too far from home, despite my liking them very much.
Syracuse ... I simply lost interest.
Mississippi ... I don't know exactly why I didn't apply here. Maybe I forgot.
Brown, NYU, Cornell ... I couldn't make the deadline.

(This post was edited by jargreen on Jan 9, 2007, 10:22 PM)

laughingman

Jan 9, 2007, 10:31 PM

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Re: [jargreen] My Schools [In reply to]	Can't Post

Where I applied:

Cornell- I want to see what sibyline and Hopperfu look like.
Minnesota- the funding and Charles Baxter sounded good; I'm hoping the city turns out to be really, really great (i hear it is).
Syracuse and Virginia- 'cause everyone else was applying.
Montana- I was like "A good program? In Montana?" and then I looked it up online (the city and the program) and it's beautiful and I have a huge crush on it. Part of me hopes I get in there and nowhere else so that I can go... but alas I would probably take most of my programs over it :(.
Iowa- Reputation alone.
Washington at St. Louis- "The Ivy League of the Midwest?" great funding, great city.
Amherst- I like the proximity to Boston and New York, love the size (am I the only one who would prefer a big program like Iowa/Montana/Amherst to a small one?) and love the three year duration.
Indiana- with everyone on the board badmouthing it lately, I kind of hope their application numbers drop so I have a better chance of getting in to this three year program.
Austin- Greed
Purdue- Three years in a good city.
Arkansas- Great Reputation, reputedly beautiful, three year program, tiered funding- but hey, a chance for a Walton Fellowship. Oh, and they read your manuscript for free before they decide if they want to charge you to apply.

Where I'm applying next year if I don't get in this year:
Madison- Lorrie Moore etc, etc, etc
Arizona- Tucson looks great, for one, funding is looking up with the new fellowships (25k!), and I'm a little perturbed I was lead to believe this program was on the decline by the Kealey book.
Greensboro and Wilmington- I just like N Carolina, and both have great reps (one established, one on the rise)
Florida- now that its January, both Florida and FSU are looking especially good.
San Marcos- Mitte Chair, adjunct readers, three years, city located between Austin and San Antonio, chance at Rose Fellowship, etc

I didn't apply to Michigan, JHU, or Houston because I didn't want to waste my time fooling around with their language requirements. I won't apply to any of the New York City schools for funding reasons.

-laugher

(This post was edited by laughingman on Jan 9, 2007, 10:41 PM)

renapoo

Jan 10, 2007, 12:53 AM

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Re: [laughingman] My Schools [In reply to]	Can't Post

I love this post! Things I agree with:

Cornell- I want to see what sibyline and Hopperfu look like.
Don't we all! Especially with that MFA calendar Sib is nominating H-fu for...

In Reply To

Austin- Greed

Totally. Greed. I don't really want to go there, but could I turn it down? 60 grand? Damn.

In Reply To

Madison- Lorrie Moore etc, etc, etc

Madison breaks my heart. Luckily that have that post-mfa fellowship thing, so Lorrie and I still have a chance...

Also, G. Saunders at Syracuse won the "genius" macarthur grant recently, if anyone cares. Not sure how that will change the program, but he's gone from being a kind of underground superstar to a totally recognized superstar. But I didn't apply there because I didn't want to live in Syracuse (sorry, I've heard it's nice, but I'm from PA and hoping to find a new and exciting climate)

__________

Jan 10, 2007, 1:08 AM

Post #273 of 764 (4175 views)
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Re: [renapoo] My Schools [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sorry. I was referring only to the bickering w/ the 'worst thread' remark. Where are my emoticons? I jest, I jest!

I do think a good approach might just involve multiple lists--divide schools into three or more categories, i.e. Best Funding, Best Connections, Most Time To Write, etc., as a starting point. That way, you'll get the sought after info, plus satisfy this desire to rank everything. Many folks I've spoken with, are, as Hopper Fu observes, driven by one big factor, and reading any monolithic ranking system might just confuse things...

six five four three two one 0 ->

(This post was edited by Junior Maas on Jan 10, 2007, 1:11 AM)

hamholio

Jan 10, 2007, 2:23 AM

Post #274 of 764 (4164 views)
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Re: [Junior Maas] My Schools [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm happy this thread turned into something more productive -- Let's hope it stays that way! Perhaps the power of the collective lists is defeating the bludgeoning force of the one list. ;-)

I might contribute my own thoughts when it's not one in the morning.

wiswriter
Bob S.

Jan 10, 2007, 8:20 AM

Post #275 of 764 (4143 views)
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Re: [hamholio] My Schools [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just skimmed this thread and almost passed out. This is predictable coming from me, but really, any MFA ranking that doesn't include low-res programs is ridiculous from the start. Somebody up there put Warren Wilson 40th on their list. Warren Wilson is harder to get into than Iowa. Has anyone checked the low-res faculties? Charles Baxter, hello?

I'm at my last Bennington residency and there's a writer buzzing around doing a story on the top programs for The Atlantic. He's visiting a bunch of places. I'm just praying he doesn't do a ranking.

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