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Rosita


Jun 25, 2006, 5:34 PM

Post #26 of 119 (5431 views)
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Re: [pitselah] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

I just found this site today because I just starting thinking about applying for Fall 2007 admission for a Poetry MFA. The schools I am considering (thanks to you all for your helpful posts!) are: CCNY, Hunter, Brooklyn, Columbia, the New School and NYU.
Since I am a working adult over 40 I doubt if I will be able to take a break from my day job so the CUNY schools at the moment seem the most feasible.
Some of the websites of the above schools/programs are very helpful and answer most of my questions, however, can someone answer the following:
Which schools beside Hunter require the GRE?
Which provide financial aid?
How many applications is too many?
The Brooklyn College site especially seems the most devoid of detailed info.


Lglabor


Jun 26, 2006, 11:58 AM

Post #27 of 119 (5403 views)
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Re: [Rosita] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm also probably going to apply to CUNY schools. And I too am a full-time worker over (way over) 40. Plus I have no money and can't afford to go further into debt, and could live without taking the GRE. I've been investigating and this is what I've found: As far as I can tell, the Hunter program is full-time during the day, so I've ruled it out. A new program is starting at Queens College in Fall 2007. Queens, Brooklyn and City are all mostly night classes and it is possible to go through any of them as a part-time student. Queens and City don't require the GRE; I'm not sure about Brooklyn. I think they each offer some type of financial aid and/or teaching assistantships, and tuition is about as low as you're going to find anywhere--this past academic year I think it was $270 per credit.

I'm fiction so I don't know which program is strongest in poetry, but I recommend that you get in touch with each and direct your questions to them. They're very friendly and open to answering questions. I've been in touch with all via email, and now I'm setting up appointments to talk in person over the summer. As for quality, Brooklyn looks fantastic to me, but again, this is fiction.

I'll apply to NYU too, mostly because I work here and would get free tuition if I got in. But I know it's almost impossible to get in, and anyway, although it's considered one of the best, NYU's program doesn't really appeal to me. I think I'd be much happier at a CUNY school, in a working-class environment, and from what I hear about Brooklyn and City, and what I infer about how Queens will be based on my communications with their founding faculty so far, students can expect to work much more closely with and get much more personal attention from faculty at these schools than at many of the way more expensive ones.

By the way, Rutgers-Newark is starting an MFA program in Fall 2007 too. Fiction faculty will be Jayne Ann Phillips and Tayari Jones--both big wows for me. No other details are available yet, but Newark is of course just a PATH ride from Manhattan.

So me, I'll probably apply to four--NYU and the three CUNY schools--or maybe five, if Rutgers is affordable. If you can afford NYU, New School, or Columbia, I don't see why it would be too much to apply to them plus the CUNY schools. Good luck!


Clench Million
Charles

Jun 26, 2006, 1:07 PM

Post #28 of 119 (5389 views)
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Re: [Rosita] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Columbia gives partial financial aid to a few people and a few possibilities for a free ride + stipend second year. NYU provides partial to a few and a full ride to a handful (maybe only one in each genre). Both are pretty bad with their funding. I'm not positive about TNS, but I believe its the same as those two, maybe even worse.

Tom Kealey's blog recommends 8 to 12 applications. So your list doesn't read like "too many" to me.

Personally I think TNS and Columbia have great faculty all around, and both have good poets. NYU's faculty is few and far between and mostly unimpressive.


Rosita


Jun 26, 2006, 8:56 PM

Post #29 of 119 (5349 views)
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Re: [Lglabor] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right...Hunter is full time only. I called Brooklyn today and they do not require the GRE.
Thanks for the tips on the other schools. Looks as if my list is narrowing down...I plan to go to as many open houses as I can when they are announced. No harm in researching them all.


caolanm


Jul 3, 2006, 10:08 AM

Post #30 of 119 (5273 views)
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Re: [Rosita] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi--I just wanted to let you know that although Hunter is full-time, which might make the workload tough for you, all of the Hunter classes start at 5:30 or later. So if you can leave work some days at 5 (depending on where you work) you shouldn't have trouble getting to class. Brooklyn College may be the same but I'm not entirely sure.


(This post was edited by caolanm on Jul 3, 2006, 10:09 AM)


Elika619


Nov 7, 2006, 12:06 PM

Post #31 of 119 (5100 views)
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Columbia MFA [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey all,

I just wanted to see if anyone else would be attending Columbia's open house for prospective MFA students this Monday, November 13th. I will be there. Let me know!

Elika


Aubrie


Nov 7, 2006, 12:44 PM

Post #32 of 119 (5086 views)
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Re: [Elika619] Columbia MFA [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll probably be there. PM me!


Lglabor


Jan 31, 2007, 12:12 PM

Post #33 of 119 (4906 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] Columbia MFA [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasn't sure where to put this, but thought some folks might be interested: NYU's MFA program has a new director: Deborah Landau, a poet. She starts next week so I wonder what her role will be in the current round of admissions.

Here's a link to the announcement: http://www.nyu.edu/...releases/detail/1383


Aubrie


Mar 30, 2007, 2:07 PM

Post #34 of 119 (4723 views)
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New School [In reply to] Can't Post

I know there are a few of us on this forum who got into TNS. Are you all planning on going? I think I'm pretty set on it, though I do have reservations about the lighter courseload. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Also - is anyone as excited as I am about the faculty there?!


CHughes77


Mar 30, 2007, 6:52 PM

Post #35 of 119 (4676 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] New School [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Aubrie. I'm pretty set on going, and very excited about the professors. I'm not at all concerned about the workload--I want time to write my book. And besides, looking at this semester's "writer's life colloquium" schedule, it seems as though that accounts for a large part of the learning. There are amazing events almost every night. Overall, the New School program, to me at least, feels less like academia and more like a serious apprenticeship. I like that a lot.


steven.earl


Apr 27, 2007, 12:35 PM

Post #36 of 119 (4564 views)
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Re: [CHughes77] New School [In reply to] Can't Post

I was recently accepted to The New School for fiction. I am incredibly excited. The faculty is amazing.

I attended one of their Fiction Forums a few weeks back and was able to talk with a few other first year fiction writers. They PRAISED the program.

It's going to be a great two years.


mrshankly


Apr 30, 2007, 5:35 PM

Post #37 of 119 (4488 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

"Columbia gives partial financial aid to a few people and a few possibilities for a free ride + stipend second year. NYU provides partial to a few and a full ride to a handful (maybe only one in each genre). Both are pretty bad with their funding. I'm not positive about TNS, but I believe its the same as those two, maybe even worse."

The information about NYU is inaccurate. Two to three first-years are awarded New York Times Fellowships, which include full tuition remission and a stipend of 20k. Beyond that, Departmental Fellowships, which provide half-tuition remission, are awarded to nearly everyone. (I'm a second-year and I literally don't know a single person who doesn't have at least this level of support. Perhaps if you come in off the waitlist...)

At NYU, you take 8 points per semester; the Departmental Fellowship would cover 4 of those points. The cost is around $1000/point, so if you have a Departmental Fellowship, you'll be paying around $8000/year for tuition, or $16000 for the 2-year degree. I'm not sure what the figures are for other NYC programs, but I suspect the cost of NYU is, at the very least, competitive.

Other fellowship opportunities at NYU: the Goldwater Writing Project, through which writers work with severely disabled adults; the Starworks Teaching Project, through which students work with children who are hospitalized or environmentally at-risk.

7 Goldwater Fellows per year; each earns $3000.
14 Starworks Fellows per year:
1 earns full tuition remission, plus a stipend of 20k;
4 earn yearly stipends of $5000;
9 earn yearly stipends of $3000.

You also get to teach an introductory creative writing workshop during your second year. You're paid as an adjunct, obviously. And it's also possible to teach in the Expository Writing Program, which carries full tuition remission and stipend.

I'm not claiming that NYU offers support comparable to that at Virginia or Indiana or Cornell, but please do not lump us in with Columbia. You don't have to rack up 100k in debt to go to school here.


Aubrie


Apr 30, 2007, 7:18 PM

Post #38 of 119 (4466 views)
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Re: [mrshankly] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

In defense of The New School as well - even without funding the degree is considerably less expensive than Columbia (who hasn't updated their website for current tuition, but lists 2003-2004 at $33,000) - at around $20,000 a year. Plus, it seems that TNS has made an effort to fund quite a few accepted students this year, making considerable dents in their tuition fees solely through scholarships - no strings attached.

Would I have loved to attend Columbia? Yes. Am I thrilled that I won't be drowning in debt when I finish my degree? Hell yeah. When you consider that TNS shares a lot of faculty with Columbia - the deal gets even sweeter.


(This post was edited by Aubrie on Apr 30, 2007, 10:35 PM)


Clench Million
Charles

Apr 30, 2007, 10:04 PM

Post #39 of 119 (4450 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Since we are on the topic I'll just say that Columbia recently incorporated the grad program with the undergrad and has a fair amount more funding and the incoming class will have a lot more fellowship money. I'll also just note that if you are comparing Columbia to NYU one needs to keep in mind that NYU's program provides only half the education. You pay per credit and are only expected to 8 credits a semester as opposed to 15 or more in most programs. That has its upsides and down, great if you want to work an outside job for a lot of hours a week for example, but something to consider.


Aubrie


Apr 30, 2007, 10:10 PM

Post #40 of 119 (4448 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Clench - that's awesome news. Columbia is one of the strongest programs in the nation, and if they figure out their funding they're sure to be fair competition with the very best.


Clench Million
Charles

Apr 30, 2007, 10:16 PM

Post #41 of 119 (4443 views)
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Re: [Aubrie] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, although I have no idea how it will affect the current class so maybe not awesome news for me :(
Also, John Kluge just donated 400 million dollars to Columbia earmarked for financial aid. I have absolutely no idea how or when that money will go into effect, but one would hope at least a little would go to the School of the Arts and the writing program.... considering the state of things.

Also, congrats on the New School, Aubrie. I know you wanted NYC and it is a great program with great teachers.


hamlet3145


Apr 30, 2007, 10:23 PM

Post #42 of 119 (4441 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
You pay per credit and are only expected to 8 credits a semester as opposed to 15 or more in most programs.



To the best of my knowlege it's standard at most MFA programs students take 9 credits, i.e. three classes, per semester. (With a few thesis credits thrown in once in a while). I can't imagine taking 15 credits (5 classes) per semester as a grad student. Yikes. Maybe you are thinking of the undergrad program where more credits is the norm?


Aubrie


Apr 30, 2007, 10:46 PM

Post #43 of 119 (4432 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Also, congrats on the New School, Aubrie. I know you wanted NYC and it is a great program with great teachers.






Thanks Clench! Columbia was my first choice, but TNS was a very close second, and the more I learn about the program, the more excited I get to start it!



(This post was edited by Aubrie on Apr 30, 2007, 10:51 PM)


Clench Million
Charles

Apr 30, 2007, 10:49 PM

Post #44 of 119 (4431 views)
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Re: [Hamlet3145] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

No, I'm talking grad. I could be wrong that this is how the majority work, I'm trying to find info online but most of the programs don't have the specifics up that I can see.

Keep in mind that grad classes are normally only one day a week though and also that not all classes are three credits in grad school. For example, NYU's workshops are 4 credits and they have craft classes that are 4 credit classes. At Columbia workshops are double the length of regular classes and are 6 credits, while regular classes are 3. Amherst lists their workshops as being 6 credits. Cornell's website lists the classes as being between 4 and 5 credits each.

So depending on where you are going, a 9 credit semester would only be 2 classes, each only one day a week. As I said, it depends on your needs. If you want to work full time and just take two classes on one day of the week to get your MFA there you go. If you want to immerse yourself in a program and take a wide variety of classes you'd have to be taking 15 or more a week. Personally I can't imagine taking less than 5 classes. If I was taking only two classes for a total of 5 hours of time a week I wouldn't even feel like I was in grad school.

ETA: whoops, I meant I'd feel weird taking less than 4 classes, 15 credits. 5 classes might be excessive, given the credit distribution, unless one was a 1/2 credit class that only meet a few times in the semester.


(This post was edited by Clench Million on May 1, 2007, 11:48 AM)


Aubrie


Apr 30, 2007, 10:54 PM

Post #45 of 119 (4429 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

So Clench - would you mind telling us what classes you are are taking this semester, just to get an idea?


hamlet3145


May 1, 2007, 11:06 AM

Post #46 of 119 (4394 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Clench,

Honestly did not know that. See, it pays to hang out on these forums! As an interesting comparison, Alabama's MFA requires 48 credits and it's pretty common for folks to take four years. Think UMASS is the same way. Most do Montana in two years which is a 45 credit degree though 12 of those credits can be thesis credits which leaves 33 "real" credits or an average of 8.25 per semester.


mrshankly


May 1, 2007, 12:59 PM

Post #47 of 119 (4371 views)
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Re: [Hamlet3145] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

"I'll also just note that if you are comparing Columbia to NYU one needs to keep in mind that NYU's program provides only half the education. You pay per credit and are only expected to 8 credits a semester as opposed to 15 or more in most programs. That has its upsides and down, great if you want to work an outside job for a lot of hours a week for example..."

Or if you care about something as silly as having additional time to write. But to each his/her own. If you want to spend potential writing time sitting through a third class each week, go for it. If you want to spend $100,000 on your MFA, have at it. I was simply pointing out that to know nothing about the NYU funding situation and to compare us with a program that is synonymous with "cash cow" is totally unfair.

You're correct that NYU's workshops constitute 4 points. We meet once a week for 3 hours. Columbia's workshops are worth 6 points; how long do you meet per session? 4 hours? 4.5? Or do you meet for 3 hours, like most graduate workshops, and pay 50% more for the privilege? Perhaps money is not an issue for some. Alas, it was (and is) for me.



GDClark
George David Clark
e-mail user

May 1, 2007, 1:05 PM

Post #48 of 119 (4367 views)
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Re: [Hamlet3145] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

This question of how credit hours break down at each school is interesting. To some extent it might gauge the importance a program places on education (as the term has been used earlier in this discussion) v. the creative product.
A program like the one Clench has described seems to combine the academic workload of an MA with the MFA's workshop.

If I'm misreading you, Clench, please correct me.

For perspective: 24 of UVA's 48 credits are "non-topical research". We only take two "real" classes (6 credit hours) a semester: the workshop and another graduate course (most often craft or lit, but there is freedom to move outside the department if something apropos catches your eye. Other programs even allow students to double up with workshops in two genres for a semester with no academic work whatsoever.

To be honest 3 hours of craft/lit is plenty for me. Each additional "academic" class ultimately cuts into my writing time, and I've found it difficult to devote myself to the work I'm really here for when there are several papers/essays and loads of assigned reading hanging over my head.


Clench Million
Charles

May 1, 2007, 2:06 PM

Post #49 of 119 (4357 views)
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Re: [mrshankly] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post

Shankly, it depends on how you do things. Personally I find myself writing far more with my other classes as they push me to try new things and expose me to new material. I feel like an MFA should provide you with a full graduate experience and not be little more than four workshops over 2 years, but that is only my opinion.

Columbia's program gives full rides to several students and seems to provide as many as NYU does with half or 1/3 funding. So yes, I do think it is a fair comparison on that level. The program overall will still cost more, but it also provides you with much more in terms of classes. Again, if you don't want to learn from professors and take craft classes and only think that the workshop is important that is your prerogative. I don't look down on it. I'm only pointing out that comparing a program with half the classes but arguing on a per semester pay basis seems a bit fallacious. It is almost like comparing a 1 year to 2 year program.

Columbia's workshops are 3 hours and 6 credits, like most of the programs I looked up online. We don't pay 50% more because Columbia doesn't charge per credit like NYU does. Taking 12 or 15 or 18 credits all costs the same standard tuition, like the normal university way of doing things. I also noted that NYU's craft classes are listed as being 4 credits instead of the standard 3, so lets not get to quibbly here. I'm not attacking any program, just pointing out the differences and saying different program styles will appeal to different people in different situations.


(This post was edited by Clench Million on May 1, 2007, 2:08 PM)


Clench Million
Charles

May 1, 2007, 4:47 PM

Post #50 of 119 (4321 views)
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Re: [GDClark] ] New State U. of NY Grad Writing Program [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
A program like the one Clench has described seems to combine the academic workload of an MA with the MFA's workshop.

If I'm misreading you, Clench, please correct me.


No, I wouldn't put it that way. My program and from what I understand of others like it, do not require you take any academic classes, they are all craft classes. I would assume a craft class on prose poetry here would be the same as one at UVA. No academic type lit classes, thankfully.

I was a little confused by what you mean by UVA's research credits, but a 60 credit program is only one 3 credit class more a semester than a 48 credit one.

Like I said before, it is a matter of finding a program that works for you. Personally I have been getting a whole lot out of my professors and my craft classes, knoweldge that will last with me throughout my writing career hopefully, so I am glad we take more than 2 classes a semester. I'd like to view an MFA as both time to write AND time to learn.

I can't say as I really understand how adding a craft class or even two would really cut into someone's writing time, unless they were working full time or needed to write 8 hours a day. A craft class is literally only 2 hours a week with probably not more than an hour or two of homework. I write several hours a day and still have plenty of free time.

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