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bordercrosser


Mar 19, 2010, 8:22 PM

Post #1826 of 2090 (20000 views)
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Re: [sicofelephants] decisions [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! Good luck to everybody else making decisions and/or waiting!


abcd

e-mail user

Mar 19, 2010, 10:06 PM

Post #1827 of 2090 (19962 views)
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Re: [bordercrosser] decisions [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations! I am so happy to hear how much you loved your visit to Milwaukee, Bordercrosser! That makes me excited, too. Maybe we will see one another next year. :) I'll PM you in a bit for more info.


Coconut Joe



Mar 20, 2010, 1:45 PM

Post #1828 of 2090 (19805 views)
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Re: [LesK] Information about less talked about programs [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Coconut Joe:

That's a good link. I would, however, suggest that beginning teaching right away isn't that bad.....particularly for incoming PhD students with teaching experience. (That link seems more geared toward undergrads doing BA-> PhD...though most everything else looks spot on for CW PhD applicants as well.)

Also, I'd suggest adding:
  • teaching load?
  • other funding sources? (e.g., dissertation year with no teaching? How likely?! Editorial funding? How likely?!)
  • opportunities to teach summer?
Definitely know what you're getting into...

Cheers,

Les


I agree. If you ask the questions--which Prof. Keen thinks we should ask--to the CW program DGS, she'll probably say, "What? Are you out of your mind? YOU DON'T ASK such questions in my field!" What I was getting at is that you have to be realistic. There's a high chance you might end up at community colleges, which I think is better than unemployed.


kliq


Mar 22, 2010, 9:38 PM

Post #1829 of 2090 (19331 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Information about less talked about programs [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw on thegradcafe that Cincy will be making final offers in the next two weeks. Was that posted by anyone here?


bktv


Mar 22, 2010, 11:13 PM

Post #1830 of 2090 (19283 views)
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Re: [kliq] Information about less talked about programs [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, that was me! I got into an I-need-to-make-a-decision mood, and emailed the last three schools (Utah, Ohio, Cincy) to see where I stand. Only Cincy replied—and my interpretation of the email is that, while first round offers have been made, that they expect to make a few more offers in the next two weeks, based on a "short list." Apparently I am on that list. Hopefully there will also be good news for some others on this board.


(This post was edited by bktv on Mar 22, 2010, 11:15 PM)


LCGR28


Mar 23, 2010, 12:52 PM

Post #1831 of 2090 (19097 views)
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Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post

Question: would you accept an offer that only extended an offer for tuition remittance (in the hope of securing better funding in future years)?

...I have spots on several wait lists for fantastic schools (fingers crossed!) and one acceptance from a great school but with a sub-par financial package...

Just curious, as this is my first go-round with PhD apps....


Coconut Joe



Mar 23, 2010, 1:04 PM

Post #1832 of 2090 (19084 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Question: would you accept an offer that only extended an offer for tuition remittance (in the hope of securing better funding in future years)?

...I have spots on several wait lists for fantastic schools (fingers crossed!) and one acceptance from a great school but with a sub-par financial package...

Just curious, as this is my first go-round with PhD apps....


From where? Full tuition waiver, or out-of-state tuition waiver?


gcsumfa


Mar 23, 2010, 1:17 PM

Post #1833 of 2090 (19055 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Question: would you accept an offer that only extended an offer for tuition remittance (in the hope of securing better funding in future years)?


No.

I've honestly never heard of such a thing, to be honest with you--a tuition waiver w/ out a TA stipend?

Also, the fact that you've been accepted by this school and waitlisted by some others is a good sign that you're good enough to get full-funding. Maybe it won't happen this year, but you're better off reapplying again next year and getting a fully-funded package than jumping on this borderline insulting offer of a tuition waiver sans a stipend.

One of the reasons why it's important, I think, to expect and demand full-funding is because--despite what some people like Tom Kealey say--there is often no such thing as "full-funding." His advice that you should "never pay for a graduate degree in creative writing" is too simplistic, because many grad students in CW can't live off the stipends that programs pay--stipends that haven't quite caught up with the current cost of living.

A 13K stipend in many places--and for many people--is not enough, and it's pretty common for "fully-funded" students to have to borrow extra loan money to supplement the stipend. This reality, in turn, further emphasizes the importance of securing "full-funding," otherwise you will have to borrow an absurd amount of loan money in order to live.


LCGR28


Mar 23, 2010, 1:19 PM

Post #1834 of 2090 (19053 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
From where? Full tuition waiver, or out-of-state tuition waiver?



Again, brand new to this. Didn't realize there was a difference. Non-resident tuition remittance, whatever that means!


Coconut Joe



Mar 23, 2010, 1:34 PM

Post #1835 of 2090 (19031 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
From where? Full tuition waiver, or out-of-state tuition waiver?



Again, brand new to this. Didn't realize there was a difference. Non-resident tuition remittance, whatever that means!


Then you have to pay in-state tuition. My answer is no--or maybe if you have a well-paying full time job and can do it part time.


gcsumfa


Mar 23, 2010, 1:36 PM

Post #1836 of 2090 (19028 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
From where? Full tuition waiver, or out-of-state tuition waiver?



Again, brand new to this. Didn't realize there was a difference. Non-resident tuition remittance, whatever that means!



It might mean that you would just pay in-state tuition rates, or the whole thing could be waived--I've seen this phrase used to describe both scenarios.

If I were you, I would just sit still and tell them that you can't commit to a program until it offers a full waiver and TA stipend.


gcsumfa


Mar 23, 2010, 1:37 PM

Post #1837 of 2090 (19025 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
From where? Full tuition waiver, or out-of-state tuition waiver?



Again, brand new to this. Didn't realize there was a difference. Non-resident tuition remittance, whatever that means!


Then you have to pay in-state tuition. My answer is no--or maybe if you have a well-paying full time job and can do it part time.


You can't really do that; most programs require at least two years of full-time residency.


LCGR28


Mar 23, 2010, 1:39 PM

Post #1838 of 2090 (19019 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, this gets more depressing the more info I find out...lol

I'm happy to have an acceptance, I'm old enough that I don't want to wait another year, and I have a working spouse... But I still wish the offer was better...don't know what to think about all this....

Here's hoping for one of my wait list spots--at least those will come with real funding. *sigh*


gcsumfa


Mar 23, 2010, 1:44 PM

Post #1839 of 2090 (19012 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Wow, this gets more depressing the more info I find out...lol

I'm happy to have an acceptance, I'm old enough that I don't want to wait another year, and I have a working spouse... But I still wish the offer was better...don't know what to think about all this....

Here's hoping for one of my wait list spots--at least those will come with real funding. *sigh*


You should email the Director of Graduate Studies to get more specific details about this matter. Explain your situation, and express your interest in the program. Often, directors work harder for students who follow-up on these matters.

Also, sometimes it's an issue of the department waiting for next year's funding $ to be approved, and there's nothing they can do until the bureaucratic machine spins out the numbers for them.

You still have time. I didn't get my offer until April 15th.


Coconut Joe



Mar 23, 2010, 1:47 PM

Post #1840 of 2090 (19009 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Wow, this gets more depressing the more info I find out...lol

I'm happy to have an acceptance, I'm old enough that I don't want to wait another year, and I have a working spouse... But I still wish the offer was better...don't know what to think about all this....

Here's hoping for one of my wait list spots--at least those will come with real funding. *sigh*


An CW PhD is a meaningless degree if you can't get teaching experience, that is, if the program doesn't prepare you for the academic job market.


(This post was edited by Coconut Joe on Mar 23, 2010, 1:48 PM)


LesK
Les
e-mail user

Mar 23, 2010, 9:11 PM

Post #1841 of 2090 (18824 views)
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Re: [LCGR28] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi LCGR28....

I wanted to wish you luck w/ your wait lists and suggest you heed gcsumfa's advice.

Taking a slot with less than full funding puts you in a peculiar position (do they really want me?!?) in relation to both your peers and your instructors. Moreover, if you've gotten that close (or if you get in w/ funding elsewhere), that's a good indication that your application is extremely competitive. Applying to more schools next year (assuming the worst, of course), with a stronger app package could very well result in full funding (and save you several, several thousands of dollars).

I did it (see earlier threads) & I'm positive I'm far, far happier than I would have been @ an earlier *unfunded* option. So, even if it's painful, turn down those unfunded offers....

...or at least defer 'em.

-Les


libbyagain


Mar 24, 2010, 8:18 AM

Post #1842 of 2090 (18688 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just want to pipe up in order to differ, Coconut. If one can get teaching somehow (and part-timing is extremely available in any large metropolitan area or even smaller one, as more and more colleges and universities use/abuse this cheap option) it really can be a better option, imo anyway, to use the connections and time to get publications accomplished. Get the teaching experience, for sure. But that's not hard to do, in almost all cases (all, in my experience) as an independent contractor, as long as one is enrolled in an MA or PhD program.


Coconut Joe



Mar 24, 2010, 9:22 AM

Post #1843 of 2090 (18661 views)
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Re: [libbyagain] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I just want to pipe up in order to differ, Coconut. If one can get teaching somehow (and part-timing is extremely available in any large metropolitan area or even smaller one, as more and more colleges and universities use/abuse this cheap option) it really can be a better option, imo anyway, to use the connections and time to get publications accomplished. Get the teaching experience, for sure. But that's not hard to do, in almost all cases (all, in my experience) as an independent contractor, as long as one is enrolled in an MA or PhD program.


Teaching experience is only a part of preparing you for the academic job market. I was talking about getting full support from the program. So are you suggesting she should accept the unfunded offer?


LCGR28


Mar 24, 2010, 1:22 PM

Post #1844 of 2090 (18553 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
I just want to pipe up in order to differ, Coconut. If one can get teaching somehow (and part-timing is extremely available in any large metropolitan area or even smaller one, as more and more colleges and universities use/abuse this cheap option) it really can be a better option, imo anyway, to use the connections and time to get publications accomplished. Get the teaching experience, for sure. But that's not hard to do, in almost all cases (all, in my experience) as an independent contractor, as long as one is enrolled in an MA or PhD program.


Teaching experience is only a part of preparing you for the academic job market. I was talking about getting full support from the program. So are you suggesting she should accept the unfunded offer?


No, the ability to get teaching experience is essential, I agree. I faced a similar situation with my MA program--I was unable to get a TAship in my first year so I simply worked hard, built relationships with faculty, and made enough of an impression to secure funding and a TAship for my second year. While it is nice to get funding and other advantages right off the bat, I still believe that talent and hard work can open a lot of doors...

But, Joe, I agree that this degree is probably worthless without faculty support and teaching experience.


ad785


Mar 24, 2010, 2:05 PM

Post #1845 of 2090 (18526 views)
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Re: [bordercrosser] decisions [In reply to] Can't Post

I just got rejected from the last couple schools I was waiting to hear from, so it looks like--barring some unforseen financial disaster--I'll be heading to Milwaukee in the fall. bordercrosser, I'll probably be bugging you for your impressions later.

I don't have any funding--plan to pay for at least the first year out of pocket (if I can swing a non-resident tuition remission) through continuing my adjunct work and other things, and try again for an assistantship the second year. It's been my experience from my MFA program in the past that financial support and faculty support are not mutually exclusive.


Coconut Joe



Mar 24, 2010, 2:18 PM

Post #1846 of 2090 (18515 views)
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Re: [ad785] decisions [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I just got rejected from the last couple schools I was waiting to hear from, so it looks like--barring some unforseen financial disaster--I'll be heading to Milwaukee in the fall. bordercrosser, I'll probably be bugging you for your impressions later.

I don't have any funding--plan to pay for at least the first year out of pocket (if I can swing a non-resident tuition remission) through continuing my adjunct work and other things, and try again for an assistantship the second year. It's been my experience from my MFA program in the past that financial support and faculty support are not mutually exclusive.


PhD is a different ball game.I saw people leaving Milwaukee in the past, most likely for funding-related reasons. But it's your ball game. What do I care?


abcd

e-mail user

Mar 24, 2010, 3:11 PM

Post #1847 of 2090 (18472 views)
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Re: [ad785] decisions [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ad785,

I'm in a similar position re:funding at Milwaukee. Have you received notice of your financial aid package yet? The financial aid office sent me an email last week. If you log into PAWS you should find your student aid report. Mine did show in-state tuition. If you don't mind sharing, what schools just notified you? I'm waiting on what I'm pretty sure are rejections from Utah, OU, and Denver.


libbyagain


Mar 24, 2010, 7:46 PM

Post #1848 of 2090 (18372 views)
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Re: [Coconut Joe] Decisions... [In reply to] Can't Post

"An CW PhD is a meaningless degree if you can't get teaching experience, that is, if the program doesn't prepare you for the academic job market."

I don't mean to recommend anything at all; I just thought the statement above seemed pretty clearly to suggest that the degree is meaningless if it doesn't give you teaching experience and wanted to chime in just to say that just isn't true at all in my (admittedly limited, but fairly-wide-ranging-in-a-way) experience. What you amended I agree with completely.


bktv


Mar 24, 2010, 9:51 PM

Post #1849 of 2090 (18319 views)
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Ohio [In reply to] Can't Post

Rejected by Ohio U. by email, 3/24. Another reply to my inquiry email! Apparently, decisions have been made—and all notifications will be going out "in a few days." Although, I have to think that acceptances will be contacted first (or have already been contacted). Good luck to all those waiting.


Coconut Joe



Mar 25, 2010, 11:12 AM

Post #1850 of 2090 (18116 views)
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Re: Milwaukee [In reply to] Can't Post

Milwaukee is a pretty big program. It produced 16 CW PhD dissertations in the last three years, right up there with FSU (15), Utah (14), Southern Miss (15), Nebraska (14), Houston (21), Cincinnatti (14), Western Michigan (15), Binghampton (17).

Libby, I wasn't making an ultimate statement, so it should be read in context with LCGR's situation. Peace.

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