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abcd

e-mail user

Feb 4, 2010, 3:03 PM

Post #1301 of 2090 (14892 views)
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2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi there,

I am a long time lurker but haven't posted much. Last year I applied to only one program (FSU, poetry) and was part of the wait-listed/late rejection angst crew. After a few years in a cublicled, brain atrophying 9-5 gig, I am as eager as hell to go back to school. I applied to 8 programs this year. And though I certainly am not confidant I will get in anywhere, I hope, hope, hope! Is anyone else as blog/forum checking as I am? Anyone heard anything yet? Best of luck to everyone!

a


bktv


Feb 4, 2010, 7:14 PM

Post #1302 of 2090 (14825 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes to obsessive checking, no to any notifications, although I have heard other people's MFA notifications, as well as Lit. PhDs, so it can't be more than a week or two before we hear something. Good luck!


abcd

e-mail user

Feb 4, 2010, 10:26 PM

Post #1303 of 2090 (14787 views)
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Re: [bktv] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

bktv,

thank you for your reply. yeah--no news here yet from me either and I am checking the sites regularly. aside from nick mcrae at north texas i think the notifications for phd's are pretty quiet. but any day now!

best of luck to you, too!

a


Rambler


Feb 5, 2010, 1:29 AM

Post #1304 of 2090 (14756 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for breaking the silence. I am obsessively waiting. I applied to six programs. Hoping more Ph.D. hopefuls will post here, too. I'd be interested to hear where people applied to...


rneighb


Feb 5, 2010, 8:41 AM

Post #1305 of 2090 (14731 views)
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Re: [Rambler] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay. You've convinced me to further break the silence. I'm a long-time lurked, occasional poster. I'm also obsessively checking forums.

I applied to six doc programs:

Kansas
Florida State
Utah
Illinois at Chicago
Texas Tech
Texas A&M


abcd

e-mail user

Feb 5, 2010, 10:17 AM

Post #1306 of 2090 (14708 views)
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Re: [rneighb] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

rneighb and rambler--

Yay for broken ice! Thank you for bringing your ice augurs. It is so nice to know I am not alone here in PhD waiting land. Did you apply for poetry or prose?

This might be an awful lot of rejection coming my way but if I am going to commit to 5+ years I wanted to make the most "informed" decision I could:
Utah
USC
Houston
U Missouri--Columbia
Texas Tech
Wisconsin--Mil
OU
Denver
U Illinois--Chicago

I wonder how the economic situation has (or has not) effected application numbers. Does anyone have any info on the application numbers for creative writing phd programs? I'm familiar with Seth's site, but I haven't seen any trend numbers (percent increases or decreases over a few years).

Going off of Seth's data from last year, Texas Tech, Georgia, and Wisconsin should have made acceptance calls last week and Chicago and Utah should be making phone calls/mailing acceptance letters tomorrow. Eeek!

Luckily, I'm visiting family right now in the midwest and my 4 year old nephews keep me busy playing alphabet games and choo choo trains so I can't be too obsessive.

a


sicofelephants


e-mail user

Feb 5, 2010, 10:45 AM

Post #1307 of 2090 (14696 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as I can tell, those earliest acceptances are the ones that get the most funding, while other acceptances come later. I don't know. I don't wanna think about it. It makes my brain hurt.

Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Wisconsin - Madison (Lit PhD w/ cw minor)
Denver
Houston

Short list. Too poor to afford more apps. Imagine that, having difficulty paying for PhD apps on an MA student salary :-)


(This post was edited by sicofelephants on Feb 5, 2010, 10:48 AM)


jennymck


Feb 5, 2010, 12:19 PM

Post #1308 of 2090 (14661 views)
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Re: [sicofelephants] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,

I applied to CW PhDs this year and just discovered this PhD thread and am reading back posts, etc. I'm so glad this resource is here! I was wondering are there any people who applied in CNF on here? I applied in CNF but don't know hardly any other people who are going/ have gone this route. Thanks. I applied to:
U Illinois Chicago
Ohio
U Georgia
Texas Tech
Houston
Binghamton
Western Michigan
Missouri


bktv


Feb 5, 2010, 1:23 PM

Post #1309 of 2090 (14636 views)
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Re: [jennymck] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, list! I'm in fiction, and posted my list earlier in this thread, but my final one is a bit different:

USC
Tennessee
Missouri
Wisconsin-Madison (creative minor)
Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Utah
Cincinnati
Ohio U.

I also applied to lit. PhDs with strong creative sides to the department, just to see what would happen. I'll have both an MA in lit. and an MFA, so at least technically I'm competitive.

@abcd—I tend to think that application numbers will be up, at least somewhat. An email from the department secretary at Cincinnati said that they had "a record number" of application this year. And, if what people have said about Wisconsin-Madison's total number of applications this year—it's also up.

@Jennymck—I think CNF tends to get fewer applications (although this could vary from school to school), and one program director told me this, so your chances are probably MUCH better! Good luck!


(This post was edited by bktv on Feb 5, 2010, 1:29 PM)


Rambler


Feb 5, 2010, 3:56 PM

Post #1310 of 2090 (14602 views)
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Re: [bktv] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, all, for indulging my curiosity. I'm also interested in what genre you guys are.

I'm fiction, and here's my list:

Univ. of Tenn.
Cincinnati
Western Michigan
UGA
Florida State
UI@Chicago

Also, any people currently in Ph.D. programs who wouldn't mind letting us know their program, genre, and when they were contacted?

I know it varies from year to year, but just wondering what the ballpark dates might be...

Thanks!


rneighb


Feb 5, 2010, 5:21 PM

Post #1311 of 2090 (14568 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

abcd,

Economic "downturns" tend to make graduate school applications go up quite a bit across the board. That said, for some reason (maybe I read it somewhere; not sure), I'm under the impression that PhD CW programs tend to get much fewer applications than their MFA counterparts, probably having to do with the MFA still being viewed as a terminal degree, as well as many writer-types disliking the kind of critical work that a PhD requires. Has anyone else heard this, or am I just making it up?


frankish


Feb 5, 2010, 5:35 PM

Post #1312 of 2090 (14560 views)
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Re: [rneighb] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

I hadn't hear that, but it makes sense. I wouldn't expect an enormous amount of overlap between people seeking critical/academic degrees in English or Literature and people pursuing studio degrees in writing. That said, of course there is some...probably everyone on this thread. :)

On a slightly different topic, do those of you applying for PhD Creative Writing programs already have an MFA (or MA) in Creative Writing? Or do you intend to pursue the masters and PhD degrees in sequence/concurrently at a single institution?

Thanks! And good luck to everyone!


NickMcRae
Nick McRae

e-mail user

Feb 6, 2010, 8:23 AM

Post #1313 of 2090 (14467 views)
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Re: [frankish] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey frankish,

I don't think I'm a particularly typical PhD applicant, but nonetheless...

I don't have an MA or an MFA, and I applied to North Texas' PhD program (in addition to several MAs and MFAs) because two of my favorite poets teach there. If I decide to go to North Texas, I'll either forego the MA or apply for a pass-through MA during the program. Otherwise, I'll go to an MA or MFA program and then reapply to PhDs.

This may not be a very helpful answer, but I thought I'd chime in just in case!

Be well,

NM


"You got a song, man, sing it. / You got a bell, man, ring it." - Robert Creeley

Nick McRae
nmcrae1@gmail.com
http://nickmcrae.com/


rneighb


Feb 6, 2010, 12:31 PM

Post #1314 of 2090 (14427 views)
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Re: [frankish] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

When I matriculate into a PhD program (assuming I'm accepted somewhere), I'll have already finished an MA in English (not specifically in CW, but I did take several CW courses). I'm curious, too, if most PhD CW applicants already have MA/MFAs.


LesK
Les
e-mail user

Feb 6, 2010, 12:44 PM

Post #1315 of 2090 (14422 views)
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Re: [rneighb] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

rneighb:

I think most of the CW PhDs require that you have an MA or MFA. I know every PhD student @ Cincinnati does (mostly MFAs, I think).

The only exceptions--that I'm aware of--are North Texas and USC. Both of those programs do admit students with BAs with the expectation that they'll do masters work at that program. There may be others, of the 37 CW PhDs, that use that strategy, and looking forward more schools may head in that direction (as in traditional English Lit).

Generally speaking, I think you're looking at a much smaller applicant pool for MFA programs (very few with only BAs), but also a much more accomplished applicant pool.

Hope these small tidbits help & good luck to all. Hope you don't have to wait too long for that first accept.

Best,

Les


rneighb


Feb 6, 2010, 4:17 PM

Post #1316 of 2090 (14377 views)
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Re: [LesK] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

LesK,

Actually, I think there are several PhD CW programs that accept BA-level students and then give them MAs on the way to the PhD.

I know that is a very common model in other English concentrations and outside of English departments, as well.

Of course, you are probably much more likely to be accepted to a PhD program if you already have a MA/MFA, along with the assumed accomplishments that generally come with finishing a master's level degree.


sicofelephants


e-mail user

Feb 6, 2010, 4:39 PM

Post #1317 of 2090 (14368 views)
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Re: [frankish] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm finishing up my MA in creative writing (poetry). I thought about applying to some MFA programs, too, but I'd really rather just get my PhD over with so I can start teaching. Woo, long term professional goals, woo. On the other hand, getting an MA and MFA before a PhD doesn't seem to be a bad call either in a job market like this.

I guess it depends on the program, but I know some of the schools I applied to require a masters degree for admission to their PhD. Wisconsin-Madison is the only one of the schools I applied to that doesn't require that you already have a masters, if I remember all the admissions stuff correctly.


(This post was edited by sicofelephants on Feb 6, 2010, 4:41 PM)


WanderingTree


Feb 6, 2010, 5:41 PM

Post #1318 of 2090 (14339 views)
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Re: [rneighb] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole MA on the way to PHD thing is tricky esp. if you are looking to teach on other campuses or leave before getting a PHD. A few of my friends in other disciplines were refused teaching posts at institutions other than their own b/c they were told they didn't have an MA even when they were WAY past the MA level. Definitely something to look into.


unsaid78


Feb 6, 2010, 6:53 PM

Post #1319 of 2090 (14310 views)
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Re: [bktv] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To



I also applied to lit. PhDs with strong creative sides to the department, just to see what would happen. I'll have both an MA in lit. and an MFA, so at least technically I'm competitive.



Care to share what some of those lit PhDs with strong creative sides might be? I'm just beginning to formulate a possible list for next year and may go this route instead of a CW PhD. I'm focusing geographically, at the moment, on Northern California and I got the impression from Berkeley's (long-shot, I know!) website that you can do some creative writing coursework for your lit PhD.


www.mfachronicles.blogspot.com - Follow us as we begin our 1st years in MFA programs!


bktv


Feb 6, 2010, 11:48 PM

Post #1320 of 2090 (14266 views)
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Re: [unsaid78] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I can't claim any exact science. I applied to critical schools with good MFA programs, that also have strong lit. programs. For those applications, I marketed myself based on my MA in lit., moving my creative publications way down on the CV. My basic thought is that most PhD programs in English have some elective classes, which I could spend on an occasional workshop. In doing my MA in Lit., I was able to take 1 workshop a year, which is enough to keep me writing and publishing creatively. I'm looking for places where I could do something like that, while earning a Lit. PhD from a program that would likely enable me to be competitive on the job market.

So, based on those (somewhat) subjective criteria, I didn't apply to Berkeley, since they don't offer an MFA, and wouldn't have a ready supply of graduate workshops. The closest programs to NorCal that I considered were UC-Santa Barbara and UC-Davis, but the UC system has taken funding hits (I hear). I did, however, apply to these schools:

Minnesota
Iowa
Wash U. St. Louis
Vanderbilt
Indiana
Syracuse

I also considered: Cornell, Columbia, Brown, Michigan, Virginia, UC-Irvine, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Purdue, Oregon, Ohio State, Penn State, Illinois, Maryland, Pittsburgh, and Washington. All have strong graduate creative writing and lit. programs.

If I get in to a critical program, I will inquire more heavily about the feasibility of taking graduate workshops toward a Lit. PhD. Honestly, this work is probably best done before applying, but I just didn't have time, and would be content to take nearly all Lit. classes and write a critical dissertation. Still, I know that would drive many creative writers crazy.


unsaid78


Feb 7, 2010, 12:47 AM

Post #1321 of 2090 (14253 views)
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Re: [bktv] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the detailed response! That really helps me to start considering what I'm going to do next.

Sending positive thoughts to you and all who are waiting on notifications this round!


www.mfachronicles.blogspot.com - Follow us as we begin our 1st years in MFA programs!


abcd

e-mail user

Feb 7, 2010, 3:32 PM

Post #1322 of 2090 (14173 views)
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Re: [bktv] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi bktv,

Choosing schools that offer strong lit and creative writing programs sounds like a great idea! Though I applied to phd's in creative writing, I tried also to look at schools that seemed to have critical interests that coincided with my own interests in rhetoric, linguistics, and cognitive studies (as applied to reader response theories). One thing I am concerned about, or at least will have a keen attention to upon deciding which school to choose, is how the two "departments" of creative and critical interact within the English department. It has been my experience as an undergrad and MFA grad student that there can be strong divisions between the two. What has been your experience?


umass76


Feb 7, 2010, 3:49 PM

Post #1323 of 2090 (14162 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

ABCD,

I hope you'll take a serious look at the University of Wisconsin-Madison -- which, in a sense, is the only doctoral program in America situated exactly halfway between a Ph.D. in English with Creative Dissertation and a traditional English Literature Ph.D. (and to me it has the best of both worlds). For instance:

Features of a Creative Writing Ph.D.:

* Only traditional doctoral program with internal Minor in Creative Writing
* Housed at a university with one of the top 5 MFA programs in the U.S.
* Virtually no wall between the MFA program and Ph.D. program
* Doctoral candidates can fulfill 20% to 25% of their doctoral requirements through MFA workshops
* Doctoral students (with application) can take workshops in any genre
* Admissions committee is the only traditional Ph.D. adcom willing to look at a creative portfolio
* Madison is one of the top cities for writers in the U.S.
* Doctoral students end up taking more (yes, more!) MFA workshops than two-year MFA students do
* English department is especially known for its Poetry Studies professors (and the popularity of this field of study among the students, particularly in the field of contemporary experimental/post-avant poetry)
* Head of the English Department is a contemporary Poetry Studies scholar and runs a Contemporary Poetry Reading Group for Ph.D. and MFA students alike
* Doctoral students may have opportunity to teach Creative Writing
* Program currently ranked in the Top 20 among creative writing doctorates (TSE)

Features of a Traditional Ph.D. in English Literature:

* Critical dissertation
* Program ranked #17 nationally among English Literature doctorate programs
* Program ranked Highest Tier in contemporary American Literature
* Program ranked #16 nationally in graduate placement at top 50 colleges and universities (professorships)
* Program has nearly as many alumni (23) now working at top 50 colleges and universities as the graduates of all 35 CW Ph.D. universities combined (27) ^
* One of the largest and most vibrant English Literature doctorates, by size of student body (Only Berkeley can compare, among the top 25 programs in the field)
* Madison attracts the top scholars for readings, lectures, etcetera
* Doctoral students teach Composition and Literature courses
* 4 years of Ph.D. funding guaranteed, soft guarantee of a fifth year (they've never failed to fund for a fifth year yet, according to their admissions letter), and perhaps 33% of M.A. students get funding for their M.A. (first) year

^ = Just to emphasize how startling this is: UW graduates are being compared not only to CW Ph.D. graduates at these 35 universities, but all English Ph.D. graduates at these universities (CW or traditional).

Honestly, I think the next big trend in post-MFA career paths is going to be application to quasi-hybrid Ph.D. programs -- programs that are neither Ph.D. programs in Creative Writing nor wholly/exactly traditional Ph.D. programs -- and right now that's a category with only one entrant(!) While doing a traditional Ph.D. is certainly more rigorous than doing a CW Ph.D. (academically speaking, I mean), the point is that at UW you can be a writer (and treated like a writer) and a scholar simultaneously. That's not possible almost anywhere else.

Best wishes,
Seth


bktv


Feb 8, 2010, 1:25 PM

Post #1324 of 2090 (14032 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes abcd!

I also tried also to pick schools that were compatible with both my creative and critical interests. The critical/creative feud is something worth looking at, and something that I have experienced. Creative writers might think that much of literary theory "is nonsense" and "destroys any positive experience of reading," while literature scholars are suspicious of any dissertation that isn't "serious scholarly research," and that most contemporary writing "doesn't approach literature."

There was an interesting article I read, about how few creative writers really try and bridge the gap between critical and creative sides (that is, actively try and publish both types of writing). I'll look it up and post it. One main point of the article is that creative writing should try and cultivate more emissaries to the critical side of English departments. If more good will existed on the part of creative writers toward literary scholarship, more appreciation (and a larger audience) might be created for contemporary creative writing. I'd like to think that's what I'm trying to do. Being able to enter into both communities, and I suppose trying to be a full member of each.

Seth gives many good reasons for Wisconsin-Madison as a program, and I agree that the structure may well allow for students (in the internal creative minor) to be viewed as both writers and scholars, but I don't think it's the only place where that can happen. Certainly, in a CW PhD one might be labeled as a creative writer, but there are opportunities to transcend that label at more integrated programs where lots of lit. classes are required. At Tennessee, for example, creative writers take classes with PhD students in lit. and all graduate students, regardless of specialty, are encouraged to submit their written work for lit. classes to conferences and academic journals.

Conceivably, one could finish a CW PhD with at least two publishable academic articles, and several conference presentations, AND a book-length creative MS as a result of the dissertation. At UW-Madison, you would have a book-length critical piece that could be published in parts or as a whole, and several creative pieces that could be published individually. Since I don't have a book, I guess I'm more drawn to the creative dissertation as a chance to get a draft.


(This post was edited by bktv on Feb 8, 2010, 1:31 PM)


Ms. Mystery


Feb 8, 2010, 7:53 PM

Post #1325 of 2090 (13973 views)
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Re: [abcd] 2010 PhD Responses [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey everybody,
Last week when I realized that at least one of the programs I applied to historically starts notifying in early February, I lost my marbles. All of them. Thanks, you guys, for reviving this thread. It's good to have some company since most of the web babble pertains only to MFA applications.

I applied to UIC, USC, Utah, and Denver (in addition to a slew of post-MFA fellowships) in poetry. Suddenly that list seems so short!

For anybody else who applied to Denver, I called the department today to clear up an issue with some of my transcripts, and they told me that they won't begin reading applications until February 19th. Looks like we'll be in the deep freeze for a while.

Good luck all around,
S

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