»

Subscribe | Give a Gift Subscription

Log In or Register | Help | Contact Us | Donate

Advanced Search

Main Index » Writing and Publishing » MFA Programs
creative writing ph.d. ?
Edit your profilePrivate messages Search postsWho's online?
You are not signed in. Click here to sign in.
If you are not a member, Register here!
138649 registered users
First page Previous page 1 ... 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 ... 84 Next page Last page  View All


umass76


Sep 11, 2009, 10:01 PM

Post #1151 of 2090 (18905 views)
Shortcut
Re: [prothen] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Pir,

The Atlantic doesn't list Western Michigan as a "well-funded program," nor does it list Wisconsin-Milwaukee as an "up-and-coming program." It lists the University of Michigan (MFA) as a well-funded program, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison (MFA) as an up-and-coming program. As I mentioned above, I wouldn't rely on the P&W Reader Poll for Ph.D. programs, because the "N" is too low; likewise, I wouldn't rely on Delaney's Atlantic article, both because it's not a ranking (merely a non-exhaustive list, as he explains elsewhere; that's why the lists are called "Five Top..." rather than "Top Five...") and because he didn't know what the heck he was talking about more often than not.

Western Michigan is a good option for a Ph.D., particularly in poetry. I think it's knocking on the door of the top 10 among CW Ph.D. programs (granted, there are only 35 domestically to begin with, but still, it's to be considered "above-average" in any case--though certainly some other programs, like Texas Tech, seem to be doing more on the funding front to crack that top 10). Best of luck,

Seth Abramson
Abramson Leslie Consulting [for CW applicants]


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 12:43 AM

Post #1152 of 2090 (18883 views)
Shortcut
Re: [blair_violet] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Pir, I recommend looking into the funding situation at Western Michigan before you apply. I have it on good authority from a friend who is a current PhD candidate there that the funding situation is very bleak--they weren't able to fund any incoming students last year, and things don't look any better for this year.


While it's true that money is tight at WMU, there weren't many slots open this year (for people entering in Fall of 09), especially for fiction.

Also, I'm assuming that you're talking about this year's incoming class (last application cycle), because four Fall 08 incoming students were fully funded.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 12:57 AM

Post #1153 of 2090 (18879 views)
Shortcut
Re: [prothen] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi again.

Does anybody know what sort of program is Western Michigan University? They're ranked among the 5 "well-funded" programs in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200708/mfa-programs), and 17th on Seth Abramson's list (http://sethabramson.blogspot.com/2007/12/2008-p-prelimary-reader-poll-mfa.html).

Same for Univ of Wisconsin at Milwaukee? ("Up-and-Coming" according to Atlantic).

Best,


WMU is a solid program. 1/1 teaching load of just creative writing if you're funded. The Kalamazoo-Grand Rapids area is pretty nice; it's a short train ride to Chicago.

I know the fiction side is losing a ton of people next year (MFA and Phd...I think some of these funding lines can cross over, but don't quote me on this); poetry will be tighter, I'm afraid. The department is looking for a fiction writer to take over for the departed Don Lee in the Spring.

Jaimy Gordon is an incredible fiction teacher; some of her former WMU students are Kellie Wells, Bonnie Jo Campbell, and Darrin Doyle. I can't speak too much about the poetry side.

Yes, it's true that the funding situation is tough now, but people still get funded.


prothen


Sep 12, 2009, 11:31 AM

Post #1154 of 2090 (18832 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Oops, sorry Seth, I really bungled that one.

Thanks for the info,


Pir


sayno


Sep 12, 2009, 11:57 AM

Post #1155 of 2090 (18827 views)
Shortcut
Re: [prothen] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

WMUís standing is on the slide since Stuart Dybek left the program, and the fact Don Lee left after teaching only one semester there doesnít give me a good vibe. My advice is, donít apply to any CW or traditional English Ph.D. programs unless they offer a multi-year guaranteed funding package to all admitted students.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 3:34 PM

Post #1156 of 2090 (18786 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
WMUís standing is on the slide since Stuart Dybek left the program, and the fact Don Lee left after teaching only one semester there doesnít give me a good vibe. My advice is, donít apply to any CW or traditional English Ph.D. programs unless they offer a multi-year guaranteed funding package to all admitted students.


Considering the fact that I'm enrolled in the WMU PhD program, and fully funded--while you're some undergrad at Nebraska--I think my advice is more credible than yours.

And I seriously doubt our standing is "sliding," given how many of our fiction students are publishing in national journals. One recent grad in fiction landed a tenure track job. Jaimy Gordon is an outstanding teacher.

Also, your advice about attending a school that will fund you isn't groundbreaking news.

What's your background again?


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Sep 12, 2009, 3:43 PM)


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 3:49 PM

Post #1157 of 2090 (18779 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, Don Lee stayed the entire year; he got a job that moved him from Kalamazoo, MI to Philly (Temple).


owenj


Sep 12, 2009, 4:31 PM

Post #1158 of 2090 (18768 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Picking programs because of particular faculty is a huge gamble - not saying it shouldn't be a factor, but people leave, people get hired, a 'big' name writer might be a shitty teacher, etc. so it's never a guarantee of anything.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 4:44 PM

Post #1159 of 2090 (18764 views)
Shortcut
Re: [owenj] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Picking programs because of particular faculty is a huge gamble - not saying it shouldn't be a factor, but people leave, people get hired, a 'big' name writer might be a shitty teacher, etc. so it's never a guarantee of anything.


I agree.

Also, assuming that a faculty member is a good teacher just because of his or her "big name" is a mistake...

It makes more sense to judge WMU on the production of its students.

In the last two years, two fiction grads have landed TT gigs, and two have published books.

One current student published a book while in the program.

Current students have recently published or have work forthcoming in The Missouri Review, Glimmer Train, AQR, Cimarron, Bayou, and The Tusculum Review (to name a few off the top of my head).

Two recent finalists in major national contests (Nelson Algren and Katherine Anne Porter Prize).


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Sep 12, 2009, 4:46 PM)


sayno


Sep 12, 2009, 5:36 PM

Post #1160 of 2090 (18748 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no idea why you assume Iím an undergrad at UN, why so obsessed with my background, and why you (gcsumfa) and owenj who sound like the same person always pop up here together whenever I post something and try to take me down. Remember that everyone here has the right to post anonymously.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 6:10 PM

Post #1161 of 2090 (18729 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I have no idea why you assume Iím an undergrad at UN, why so obsessed with my background, and why you (gcsumfa) and owenj who sound like the same person always pop up here together whenever I post something and try to take me down. Remember that everyone here has the right to post anonymously.


I'm not owenj.

You just shouldn't be doling out inaccurate assessments to potential applicants about programs you clearly know little about, especially when posters on this thread are enrolled in those programs.


sayno


Sep 12, 2009, 7:07 PM

Post #1162 of 2090 (18717 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

This is not the first time you guys (gcsumfa & owenj) posted here neck and neck in a matter of seconds. Inaccurate assessments? Itís a fact that Stuart Dybek, who had been a draw for students, left. Don Lee left after a short stay (OK, one year). They are both useful info for potential applicants. No? This is supposed to be a forum where we should help prospective applicants, right? By the way, I myself am in a Ph.D. program.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 7:27 PM

Post #1163 of 2090 (18698 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This is not the first time you guys (gcsumfa & owenj) posted here neck and neck in a matter of seconds.


Motet is welcome to perform an IP check to confirm that we're not the same poster.


In Reply To
Inaccurate assessments? Itís a fact that Stuart Dybek, who had been a draw for students, left.


Dybek retired.

And while both are ďfacts,Ē theyíre not enough to assume the program is sliding, especially when one considers the recent production of fiction students.

Also, without getting into too much detail, I think the fiction side of the program will be just fine, with or without Don Lee.


In Reply To
This is supposed to be a forum where we should help prospective applicants, right?


Correct. And Iím telling prospective applicants to listen to me, instead of you, because I know a hell of a lot more about the program that I attend than an outsider.


In Reply To
By the way, I myself am in a Ph.D. program.


Cool.

People donít trust your ďadviceĒ because you introduced yourself to this thread by trashing PhD CW programs. Why should a prospective applicant consider the advice of someone who thinks so poorly of PhD creative writing programs?


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Sep 12, 2009, 7:27 PM)


sayno


Sep 12, 2009, 8:15 PM

Post #1164 of 2090 (18681 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


In Reply To
Inaccurate assessments? Itís a fact that Stuart Dybek, who had been a draw for students, left.



In Reply To

Quote
Dybek retired.

And while both are ďfacts,Ē theyíre not enough to assume the program is sliding, especially when one considers the recent production of fiction students.

Also, without getting into too much detail, I think the fiction side of the program will be just fine, with or without Don Lee.

I believe Stuart Dybek teaches at Northwestern, whether he ďretiredĒ from or simply left WMU, which is a blow to the program especially when thereís no big name at WMU. And Don Lee left for TempleóIím not even sure if they have a CW program there.

In Reply To
This is supposed to be a forum where we should help prospective applicants, right?



In Reply To
Correct. And Iím telling prospective applicants to listen to me, instead of you, because I know a hell of a lot more about the program that I attend than an outsider.

You admitted they are ďfacts.Ē Why do prospective applicants have to ignore them?


In Reply To
By the way, I myself am in a Ph.D. program.



In Reply To
Cool.

People donít trust your ďadviceĒ because you introduced yourself to this thread by trashing PhD CW programs. Why should a prospective applicant consider the advice of someone who thinks so poorly of PhD creative writing programs?


Thatís your interpretation. I was saying that potential applicants should know when to say, ďNo Thanks,Ē and I just delivered a general consensus in academia that CW Ph.D. programs are ďnot highly regardedĒ because of poor job placement.



sayno


Sep 12, 2009, 8:39 PM

Post #1165 of 2090 (18676 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

To make a long story short, donít apply to any program that doesnít offer full funding. That is, donít apply to WMU.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 9:03 PM

Post #1166 of 2090 (18664 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
To make a long story short, donít apply to any program that doesnít offer full funding. That is, donít apply to WMU.


Wow, and all this time I was certain that I was funded by WMU. The tuition waiver and stipend I've been receiving must've been a mistake.


gcsumfa


Sep 12, 2009, 9:16 PM

Post #1167 of 2090 (18661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

You're either a troll, or crazy, because I find it odd that you pretend to know more about programs than people who attend those programs.

*Dybek teaches part-time at Northwestern; he's retired and living in his native city of Chicago.

*Temple has a creative writing program; Samuel Delaney has been on the fiction faculty for many years. You might've heard of him. It's also a major east coast city not far from NYC.

*So what if I admitted that they were "facts"? The issue was never your mere statement of these facts, but your claim that these facts prove that the program is sliding.

*In one of your older posts, you also claimed that PhD creative writing programs have poor job placement, yet you also posted a while back that in order to land a job at an RI, book publications matter most, while completely ignoring the FACT that most creative writing jobs aren't at R1's to begin with and many don't require a book; these are the entry level jobs in the field--jobs at SLAC's and regional universities teaching undergrad creative writing.


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Sep 12, 2009, 9:18 PM)


sayno


Sep 13, 2009, 12:14 AM

Post #1168 of 2090 (18628 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcsumfa] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

You must be some kind of idiot. I wonder how you got into a Ph.D. program in the first place, since you donít seem to read and understand the posts here, making me repeat again and again. WMU is on the slide, because of its funding situation and the loss of a key member of the CW faculty, Dybek. Got it, retard? Now buzz off.


gcsumfa


Sep 13, 2009, 12:41 AM

Post #1169 of 2090 (18609 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You must be some kind of idiot. I wonder how you got into a Ph.D. program in the first place, since you donít seem to read and understand the posts here, making me repeat again and again. WMU is on the slide, because of its funding situation and the loss of a key member of the CW faculty, Dybek. Got it, retard? Now buzz off.


Well now--way to show your age. Retard?

I apologize if I don't consider your argument convincing. Your belief that a program is automatically "on the slide" because a "key faculty member" retires after teaching at said school for 30-some years is absurd.

While the funding situation isn't great now, I provided reasons why the program is not "on the slide," you know, because Iím actually enrolled in the program and have participated in the workshops here and know the publication success of current students and recent graduates. How is a program "on the slide" when students are publishing in national journals and landing tenure track jobs?

Note to self: sayno to trolls.


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Sep 13, 2009, 12:43 AM)


owenj


Sep 13, 2009, 12:57 PM

Post #1170 of 2090 (18544 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

ha, I'm not gcsumfa, and I didn't attack you. People want to know your background because the evidence from your previous round of posts made it sound as if you might be an undergrad at Nebraska. That doesn't mean your advice isn't useful and welcome, but it is helpful to hear where you're coming from. If that's not the case, I apologize, so please tell us about your PhD program. I know it's hard to resist calling somebody 'retard' with the protection provided by the anonymity of the internet, but can we agree to keep things civil? It's fine to argue, but this board is only going to be useful if you can provide evidence to back up your claims.

My last post was not meant to attack you. Everybody here is aware that full-funding is a good thing - but, I think applying to (or assessing) a program based on faculty names can be useful, but in the end it's not guarantee of the 'quality' (if that can be measured objectively) of a program - people leave, people go on sabbaticals, etc. Funding too, is a tricky thing - just because a program may have dropped the number of funded slots one year doesn't mean they won't be able to fund people the next year. Last year was a tough year financially for most schools, but (hopefully) situations are improving, so I wouldn't say that the reputation of a school has suddenly slipped because of one year of bad funding - I don't think we're going to know how this has affected programs for a while (meaning if a program is unable to fund grad students for, say, five years). My program has still been able to fully fund all of its PhDs, but might have admitted a few fewer students this time around, which is maybe a better move than admitting students without any funding, but I also know people who started out without funding (at other schools) and were able to get it later, or at the last minute. So I'm not willing to count a program out for having a bad year or two or to say that a program isn't worth applying to when we don't really know what most school's situations are going to be this year.


kvandegraaf


Sep 13, 2009, 2:16 PM

Post #1171 of 2090 (18514 views)
Shortcut
Re: [owenj] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow. owenj, gcsumfa, don't feed the troll. It pains me to see you both taking such care not to offend someone who is clearly not interested in engaging in a conversation about this. I think it's suspect when some anonymous person shows up with the objective of bashing the reputation of every CW PhD program that comes up on the board. Talking about the drawbacks of certain programs is fine; it's useful for prospective applicants to think about those aspects of a program as well, but not when the conversation can't be conducted with even a modicum of respect. Not when one participant in the conversation is only interested in considering information about the programs within the narrowest possible spectrum. You're engaging with a brick wall here. You don't have to defend your program or your intelligence. Don't take the bait. Speaking as one member of this large community, sayno's attitude isn't welcome here. Your post calling gcsumfa a retard is both unnecessary and a very clear indicator of your maturity level. Take your sour grapes somewhere else.


__________



Sep 13, 2009, 2:41 PM

Post #1172 of 2090 (18501 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kvandegraaf] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know. The prevailing attitude here seems to be that if you post an opinion about a program, it must be a gushing well of positivity! Otherwise, kindly shut the fuck up.

I mean, civility's one thing. Certainly we should express our opinions with tact and care. But sometimes it was very hard for me to comb through the MFA boards and find something of value or that would help guide my decisions. Every single program was just the best thing ever!!!. Other times, when I had something to post about a friend's negative experience at one program or another (taking care to be very specific about what it was they disliked), people would respond as if I'd just skinned their dog. Even if it was just something concrete and simple you'd figure most applicants would want to know (like Your Favorite Writer doesn't prepare for / read student outside of class, or a TA leads the discussions, etc).

I think this is an incredible resource...but we're not doing anyone a favor by basically being PR reps for every single school.


six five four three two one 0 ->

(This post was edited by Junior Maas on Sep 13, 2009, 2:45 PM)


sayno


Sep 13, 2009, 6:14 PM

Post #1173 of 2090 (18457 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kvandegraaf] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Kvandegraaf,
Check out who started insulting first. I wasnít even responding to owenj or gcsumfa, who starts frothing at the mouth whenever I show up here. I canít engage in a normal conversation when a person becomes so defensive he canít even read and understand the posts correctly, and intends to drag it along forever. And I donít have time to sit here for 24 hrs a day like gcsumfa. Funding has been a priority for most MFA and CW Ph.D. students on this discussion board and on any other CW discussion boards. I simply echoed that sentiment, and gcsumfa (or owenj) goes ga ga whenever he sees a negative comment. Anyway you have no right to say Iím not welcome here. Many prospective applicants find my comments immensely helpful. You guys make me tired. Iíll try to stay away from here.


kvandegraaf


Sep 13, 2009, 6:32 PM

Post #1174 of 2090 (18449 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sayno] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, sayno. I did read the entire thread, and that isn't my reading of the "conversation" that took place. I think your tone has been combative since the beginning. Some of the information you posted may be useful for applicants, but not under the guise of "this is a potential problem with your department; therefore, your department sucks and has a bad reputation." As I said, I am only one member of a large community. I can say, for myself, that the kind of tone I see in your posts isn't helpful or welcome.

Junior Maas, I can see your frustration with the cheerleading that sometimes goes on here. I don't have time to comb back through the posts to see which criticisms you're talking about, but I'm fairly sure you weren't posting in the same spirit as sayno. For instance, I have a hard time believing that "you're a retard! how did you get into a PhD?" wasn't part of the conversation. As a recent PhD applicant, all I can say is that I have seen at least some legitimate criticism of certain departments on these boards that was helpful to me. I do agree that thinking about how to post about and react to criticisms of departments is something that this community might want to do more thinking about. That might be a helpful conversation to evolve from what I feel is a less productive disagreement happening right now in this thread.

OK. Back to my hidey hole under a mountain of student essays!


sayno


Sep 13, 2009, 7:55 PM

Post #1175 of 2090 (18391 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kvandegraaf] Connecticut [In reply to] Can't Post

"WMUís standing is on the slide since Stuart Dybek left the program, and the fact Don Lee left after teaching only one semester there doesnít give me a good vibe. My advice is, donít apply to any CW or traditional English Ph.D. programs unless they offer a multi-year guaranteed funding package to all admitted students. "

This is my first post on WMU. Does it sound combative? And youíre misquoting me in your post. They are not the words I said. Do you teach that to your students? Donít put words in my mouth.

First page Previous page 1 ... 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 ... 84 Next page Last page  View All

Main Index » Writing and Publishing » MFA Programs

 


P&W Newsletters

Sign up to receive our monthly email newsletter to stay informed of the latest news, events and more.

Click to Sign Up

Subscribe to P&W Magazine | Donate Now | Advertise | Sign up for E-Newsletter | About Us | Contact Us

© Copyright Poets & Writers 2011. All Rights Reserved