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Zuleika Dobson

Nov 18, 2009, 9:01 PM

Post #76 of 104 (5713 views)
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Re: [Forum Apps] 2009	Can't Post

With all due respect, my criticism wasn't about their lack of research, but a rather an alarming combination involving lack of common sense and general IQ... harsh but true.

But I also think that they could very easily have researched instead of wasting everyone's time. Not having 'easy access' is not a reasonable excuse. With all the sites about MFAs out there, it's almost impossible NOT to read about them.

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

Forum Apps

Nov 18, 2009, 9:50 PM

Post #77 of 104 (5692 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

You�re saying that (�With all the sites about MFAs out there, it's almost impossible NOT to read about them.�) as someone who participates in an online poetry forum. I think your perception is skewed.

I�m currently living on a farm and taking classes at the local branch university. There are some decent undergraduate-level writers (I don�t know how they would do applying to top programs, but still) who write local-type fiction and poetry. Many of them talked about their desire to go to MFA programs but very few of them have any idea what is involved in the application process and the professors don�t seem to know much either.

There is no publish or perish mindset around here. No perception that one has to apply to 10+ programs to be competitive. Nothing of the sort.

Hell, one person is so set on keeping their sense of local identity that they will only attend the University of Wisconsin (although there aren�t any writers at the school that write in the same style as the said student, nor are they accepting applications in his genre during his senior year�) I read some of his stuff�I�m not the best judge of fiction but his work was wonderfully comical and slightly surreal. He�d probably fit in wonderful in a program that is open to that kind of writing. I can see the same thing happening at NYC schools�people want to stay in the city. They may not have a huge sense of MFA programs or have looked much at online rankings but they probably found out which schools in town have MFA programs.

Philosophy and classics majors are often clueless about shit like this too (I have a few friends in such fields and basically I had to tell them where to apply�and I�m not even a major in either field� though, I do know where a lot of continental philosophy experts are).

Quote

Friend: �I�m going to apply to [insert program].�
Me: �I think you�d be really unhappy there.�
Friend: �How do YOU know where I'd be happy?!�
Me: �Dude, that program is all philosophy of logic and cognitive science.�
Friend: �Oh. Good point."

I�m not saying that there won�t be crappy people in workshop. Likely, there will be. I HIGHLY doubt how well they are able to look up MFA program rankings or find poetry forums online has much to do with this. Hell, there are many brilliant people out there who know nothing about admissions.

(This post was edited by Forum Apps on Nov 18, 2009, 9:51 PM)

__________

Nov 18, 2009, 10:13 PM

Post #78 of 104 (5680 views)
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Re: [Forum Apps] 2009	Can't Post

Aren't all the crew at Wisconsin flown in from urban areas, though? When we think of Lorrie Moore, do we think: Ah, Wisconsin!

six five four three two one 0 ->

(This post was edited by Junior Maas on Nov 18, 2009, 10:14 PM)

Forum Apps

Nov 18, 2009, 10:29 PM

Post #79 of 104 (5670 views)
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Re: [Junior Maas] 2009	Can't Post

I'm not saying it makes any sense faculty wise--it is more of a "I don't want to live anywhere but Wisconsin" thing.

I mean, I'm a HUGE Lorine Niedecker junky--but even she went to "hang out" with Zukofsky for a while.

...still, I understand why people want to hold onto their sense of place.

(This post was edited by Forum Apps on Nov 18, 2009, 10:30 PM)

__________

Nov 18, 2009, 10:37 PM

Post #80 of 104 (5664 views)
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Re: [Forum Apps] 2009	Can't Post

Agreed. So far the choices for the Texan-born are: (1) get into the world's hardest school or (2) see #1.

P.S. Zuleika, what the eff does je suis d'accord mean other than a song by the world's awesomest woman?

six five four three two one 0 ->

(This post was edited by Junior Maas on Nov 18, 2009, 10:43 PM)

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Nov 18, 2009, 10:53 PM

Post #81 of 104 (5653 views)
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Re: [Junior Maas] 2009	Can't Post

It's French for "I agree."

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

Zuleika Dobson

Nov 19, 2009, 10:21 PM

Post #82 of 104 (5598 views)
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Re: [Junior Maas] 2009	Can't Post

Yep. Quite literally, it's "I am of agreement" (or accordance). Sorry. I was abroad most of this year and certain phrases still sound/look more correct than English. I also developed a Pavlovian response to automatically speak French whenever I hear an accent of any sort.

Forum: again, it wasn't the research that bothered me. It just happened to be icing on top of the proverbial cake--and a reminder that the best and most competitive MFA programs don't necessarily attract the 'best and brightest' in any traditional sense.

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Dec 6, 2009, 8:30 PM

Post #83 of 104 (5352 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

In Reply To

Forum: again, it wasn't the research that bothered me. It just happened to be icing on top of the proverbial cake--and a reminder that the best and most competitive MFA programs don't necessarily attract the 'best and brightest' in any traditional sense.

Too true. Just submitted my NYU app this afternoon. Four down, three to go!

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

Zuleika Dobson

Dec 6, 2009, 9:23 PM

Post #84 of 104 (5341 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] 2009	Can't Post

We're not worthy, we're not worthy!

I have submitted nothing. I have finished all of it except, of course, my writing sample. I suspected I would be rewriting and revising until the last minute, which is exactly what's happening. But I always secretly enjoyed that week of camping out in the library during finals, fueled off nothing but coffee and XRs and that ever-abating window of time.

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Dec 7, 2009, 2:35 PM

Post #85 of 104 (5289 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

Usually I procrastinate pretty heavily, which I originally figured I would do with MFA applications because (and this was the rationalization masquerading as logic) "hey, what if I write that one brilliant poem a day before the deadline?" I then remembered that things I think are awesome right after I finish them almost never are, and proceeded to scare myself into thinking that if I did procrastinate, I'd end up submitting a totally different (and inferior) MS.

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

Zuleika Dobson

Dec 7, 2009, 3:03 PM

Post #86 of 104 (5283 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] 2009	Can't Post

I'd written only poetry for most of my life (up until a year and a half ago), and I'd fall into a frenzy of inspiration at 2 am that would result in a nice, rabid little poem three hours later. Of course, this only happened every couple of months.

But I struggle a LOT with lengthier endeavors. This novel-writing thing is new to me and it's damn exhausting. Makes me wonder how the hell Byron was able to churn out Childe Harold.

Are you applying to Columbia too?

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Dec 7, 2009, 3:06 PM

Post #87 of 104 (5281 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

I am, though the NYU funding package and willingness to accomodate applicants working full-time makes them more attractive to me. Columbia is a fantastic program, though, and I'd love to stay in NYC, so I figure I'll apply and see if I can work out work/funding/&c with them if I'm accepted.

Have you started tackling their 1,000-word academic essay yet?

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

Zuleika Dobson

Dec 7, 2009, 3:29 PM

Post #88 of 104 (5273 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] 2009	Can't Post

I absolutely have not. Was about to ask you the same thing.

Agreed, and on top of what you mentioned, I enjoyed their nonchalance about specifics of the application not related to the writing sample. I am wary of programs that require additional critiques, essays, evaluations from professors... but not NYU.

Easy, breezy, beautiful.

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Dec 7, 2009, 3:35 PM

Post #89 of 104 (5269 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

*Accommodate. Man, I'm never fast enough to defeat this beat-the-clock post-editing system.

And I agree re: additional requirements beyond the MS. I was originally going to rework an essay I wrote during undergrad, but I don't think I responded to any collections of poetry written within the last ten years (as required by the Columbia prompt). I think I'm going to have to go with something brand-new, which isn't horribly difficult (1,000 words is, what, three to four double-spaced pages?) but still takes time away from editing the MS, which is what I feel I should be mainly concerned with.

Then again, Columbia takes 80 - 90 of the 600-ish applicants they get each year, so they've got one of the highest acceptance rates around.

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

Zuleika Dobson

Dec 7, 2009, 4:09 PM

Post #90 of 104 (5258 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] 2009	Can't Post

Yeah, I feel like if I don't get into a program with those highly-encouraging numbers, I might fall into a misery the world has never known.

The 'past ten years' requirement is a bitch, but probably the only way they can ensure that the majority of these will be written specifically for this application. Wish I were applying for poetry. Then I'd write something about Craig Arnold's work and tie it all up with a wonderfully mournful ending.

I'm torn between 'extremely obscure' or PEN/Hemingway winner.

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Dec 7, 2009, 4:31 PM

Post #91 of 104 (5251 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

Interesting you should say that, since I was considering Craig Arnold as a definite possibility (I'm a huge fan of Made Flesh). Also considering Dean Young, Franz Wright, Paul Muldoon, and Natasha Trethewey.

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

Zuleika Dobson

Dec 7, 2009, 4:42 PM

Post #92 of 104 (5244 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] 2009	Can't Post

Hands down my favorite living or almost-living writer, poetry or fiction.

Made Flesh is a grand succession of petite morts.

Note: would totally want to read yours if you happen to choose Mr. Arnold.

"Every spectator is a coward or a traitor."

(This post was edited by Zuleika Dobson on Dec 7, 2009, 4:44 PM)

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Dec 8, 2009, 8:13 PM

Post #93 of 104 (5181 views)
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Re: [Zuleika Dobson] 2009	Can't Post

If I go with Craig's Made Flesh, I'll definitely send you a copy to look at. Thanks!

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

NaomiMBishop
Naomi Melati Bishop

Mar 22, 2011, 3:22 AM

Post #94 of 104 (2490 views)
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NYU current students and admits 2011-2012	Can't Post

Hi, I wanted to restart the forum for NYU MFA admits, current students, and prospective students. I am currently deciding between NYU and Columbia's programs. NYU offers better financial aid, however it is a much less intensive program with far fewer classes. Columbia's professors seem much more accessible and the rigorous program can be likened to a PhD in English with a creative dissertation.

It's a matter of personal preference, but I'd love to hear from some current NYU students (preferably in fiction)! Thanks :)

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Mar 22, 2011, 5:41 AM

Post #95 of 104 (2485 views)
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Re: [NaomiMBishop] NYU current students and admits 2011-2012	Can't Post

I've never had an accessibility issue with my professors at NYU. For me, it was a no-brainer, since I could cobble together the funds to go to NYU for free but couldn't do so for Columbia (their program would have put me nearly $100,000 in debt).

True, the Columbia MFA requires more classes, and that should be a deciding factor if that's what you really want. I wanted to be able to keep working while I pursued my MFA, which is easily done at NYU but is virtually impossible at Columbia.

I don't know a ton about Columbia's program aside from what's available on their website, but feel free to PM me if you have questions about NYU!

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

kghoerth

Mar 22, 2011, 12:23 PM

Post #96 of 104 (2446 views)
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Re: [NaomiMBishop] NYU current students and admits 2011-2012	Can't Post

I know a Columbia MFA grad with an exhuberant amount of debt, but at the same time she's an amazing writer. LoL, I'm not too helpful that's all I happen to know :)

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Jul 3, 2011, 8:43 PM

Post #97 of 104 (1983 views)
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Re: [kghoerth] NYU current students and admits 2011-2012	Can't Post

Yeah, the few Columbia MFA people i know report having huge amounts of student debt. Unless you're independently wealthy or one of the few granted full funding, I can't see how you'd justify attending Columbia's MFA program.

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

zackperici
Zack Perici

Aug 19, 2011, 6:06 AM

Post #98 of 104 (1765 views)
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Re: [ericweinstein] NYU current students and admits 2011-2012	Can't Post

You know, I wish I knew then what I knew now about going into that much debt for education. I got my BFA in writing for a cool hundred-and-twenty-thou. It seemed perfectly logical; If I ran out of money "they" could take away my house or my car, but I'd always have the education. Then I realized that even though I could keep the education, they can still take my next 30 years of paychecks.
I don't regret the education, but I do regret the financial irresponsibility that enabled it.

ericweinstein
Eric Weinstein

Aug 19, 2011, 12:02 PM

Post #99 of 104 (1750 views)
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Re: [zackperici] NYU current students and admits 2011-2012	Can't Post

Yeah, that was why I decided I wouldn't attend an MFA program if I had to pay for it. Still working on the undergraduate student loans.

Hans Landa: You'll be shot for this!
Aldo Raine: Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before.

AMB
A B

Dec 2, 2011, 8:02 PM

Post #100 of 104 (1384 views)
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NYU Funding	Can't Post

Hey there,
Does anyone know whether NYU offers the *possibility* of full-funding plus a stipend? I'm thinking about applying for poetry. I know the school has a reputation for lousy funding, but I'd still go through with the application if there's a chance (even a minuscule one) that I'll get lucky and have my tuition waived and a little bit of spending cash to boot. So, does anyone know? And if so, do you know what the highest awards are, and how many NYU offers a year?
Thanks in advance,
AMB

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