...I'm not sure what to think about an all workshop MFA... How is that really an MFA? ....

As I've told lots of new students at Bennington, you'll find the writing to be worse than you expected, with blinding exceptions.

This is my last residency, and god willing, my last workshop. Ever. I'm taking away a group of trusted, objective readers and that'll be my "workshop" from now on. At this point I'm totally cynical about the workshop method. I've heard too much that's been just plain wrong. In two of my four MFA workshops, teachers have caught me in the hall after my work has been up and said, I hope you're not going to take most of that advice, I tried to stop it. Imagine if they taught music or painting this way, with a bunch of other beginners telling you what to do. When people ask me why I'm so prejudiced in favor of low-residency programs, the first thing I say is, you get taught primarily by the people who know what they're doing. What a concept. My top advice to anyone going into an MFA is to listen carefully to the teachers, draw them out on your work, and run any advice you're taking from anyone else past them first. Not that they're always right, either, but their batting average is way higher than your classmates'.

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I am bumping this thread, because your post resonates with me, and confirms what I've come to realize--a lot of workshop feedback from peers is harmful.

Specifically, what I've realized over the years is that work that takes chances with language and style is bound to have at least one or two harsh critics. You could turn in the first chapter of Lolita, and some moron who hasn't read anything other than Ray Carver stories will rip it to shreds.

I actually had a person in my last workshop (I'm a PhD student who takes w-shops with mostly MFA students) say that "once the language, voice, and style is stripped away, the narrative is pretty barren."

Well, duh--it was a voice driven piece; there are countless examples of stories and novels that are driven successfully by narrative voice, as opposed to traditional character and plot. Needless to say, I'm done with workshops after this semester. Forever.

I don't have an issue with harsh critique, but nothing is more annoying than harsh critiques by someone who isn't well read.

My advice for potential MFA students--be prepared if you actually want to write something in a distinctive voice and style, rather than safe, McFiction.

I'm sorry your workshop experience has been frustrating. But isn't that the fault of your cohort? Or it could be that you're not as good a writer as you think. It's hard to be objective about your own writing.

Well, most of my the work I write now is eventually accepted by national magazines, so I think I have an idea that my work is decent.

My point, though, is that it's often annoying when people impose an aesthetic on someone else's work; there's a difference between telling Marquez that he needs more John Cheever in "An Old Man With Enormous Wings," which would be really stupid, and giving him suggestions that actually fit his work.

Okay, I think I get it now. Wiswriter's objection is to the workshop model. Your objection is to your cohort. Is that about right? Both of you make good points.

But that Marquez thing, he never did an MFA or get workshopped and he's still a better writer than most of us will ever be. And if someone ever told him to put in more Cheever, I bet he'd still write whatever the hell he wanted. And that was my original point.

Workshops aren't just a way for us to get feedback on our stuff. Most of the semester is spent workshopping other people. And that's the part that I really enjoy. To say that you are never going to take a workshop again because you're annoyed by harsh critiques from someone who isn't well read is a bit selfish. And I don't fault that. It's your life and your time. But as you said, most of your stuff eventually gets published anyway. Plus you already have an MFA and you were good enough to get into a PhD program and it sounds like the MFA kids in this program are weak so I would think you could teach these kids a thing or two. You can be someone's great workshopper. You can be an asset in whatever workshop you're in. But if you'd rather not waste your time, that's your call.

My prof did warn me that humour and emotions in a peice are things workshop groups aren't used to so tend to attack.

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This is so true. Flannery O'Connor could submit a story to almost any workshop, and most of the workshoppers would comment on her "flat" characters--"they're not 'three-dimensional' enough....and what's with the names--I don't know any one in 'real life' named The Misfit.' "

Sigh