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tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 7, 2007, 11:27 AM

Post #126 of 430 (8061 views)
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Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

  

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There is one tuition for Columbia, it is the same at all the departments. Different programs are not allowed to pick different tuitions for their students (I think this is the same


Actually, undergrads in the School of General Studies pay more per unit than those in the other undergraduate schools. They also pay for a greater number of units, 17 v. 15, before they hit a max tuition cap. It's my understanding GS students pay what grad students pay and that grad students all pay the same amount.


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So why can't a big rich university like Columbia do the same thing? Well, here is the problem, Columbia does not currently HAVE a creative writing undergrad program. The

Really? Then I spent far too much time on the 6th floor of Lewisohn hall and my degree is a lie. GS students have been able to major in Lit-Writing for years. Now that Columbia College students can major in writing, suddenly the program won't be a frankenmajor (half lit, half writing), will be modeled on the graduate program and will use graduate instructors. Previously, CC and BC students could have a writing concentration. Which was actually the same number of workshops as GS students took, plus CC-only honors workshops. Also, the department gives a thesis reading to CC seniors, concentration or no. A student had to get grant money from the History Channel and CU Arts to put on a reading for GS Seniors majoring in lit-writing because the department refused.

I think one of the reasons I applied to the MFA was in the hope that I could attend Columbia as a mainstream student, rather than a second class student.


Quote
So that is what is crippling Columbia's funding, the lack of a creative writing undergrad program.


Well, I suppose they could have saved tons of money using grad students instead of adjuncts for the Structure & Style classes at least, maybe not the advanced workshops.

Edited to add that I'm totally down with the dance fighting and can't believe my gay porn star/escort schoolmate garnered no response.


(This post was edited by tenderloner on Mar 7, 2007, 11:32 AM)


mingram
Mike Ingram

Mar 7, 2007, 12:04 PM

Post #127 of 430 (8043 views)
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Re: [HopperFu] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Clench and I should be dance-fighting.


I would pay HUGE money, like $5, to see Mike and Clench dance-fight. Seriously. First one of us to give a high-profile reading somewhere should insist on a dance-fight. I'd totally do a dance fight as long as I get to be the one with the feathered hair.


It's too bad we didn't think of this a couple months ago, because Barrelhouse hosted a reading at KGB in New York. We could've thrown down, literary nerd style.


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 7, 2007, 12:44 PM

Post #128 of 430 (8019 views)
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Re: [Junior Maas] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

You joke, but I do know someone on a full ride to Columbia because she's half Mexican. Luckily, her father's half (itself likely white and upper class Mexican), so she has the surname. She owned property in another state, but somehow hid that fact from financial aid. Albeit, that's undergrad.


In Reply To
Holy shit!

No one's commented on this:


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Research your family tree for ethnic associations!

Anyone else find this hilarious? Like, what, my great-grandfather was half Cherokee, so maybe if I toss some Miracle-Gro on our family tree, lie to the right committee, I could get me some funding?

Could your family tree also be hiding Mexicans? Our students have many, many options!


Arkinese


Mar 7, 2007, 4:35 PM

Post #129 of 430 (7968 views)
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Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


In Reply To
Research your family tree for ethnic associations!
You joke, but I do know someone on a full ride to Columbia because she's half Mexican. Luckily, her father's half (itself likely white and upper class Mexican), so she has the surname.

It's true about "ethnic-related" scholarships. I certainly wasn't applying to Columbia for my undergrad but my mom researched scholarships anyway because she's paranoid about money having come from a poor Italian family. My dad, who is not Italian and not money-paranoid, scoffed at the idea that I would get any need-based scholarship based on our financial status. My mom prattled on about how there were "tons of scholarships for Italian-Americans and since [I'm] a quarter Italian...."
ME: Oh, come on. I know there are Hispanic-based ones but who's giving money for Italian scholarships? The mob?
MOM: [long pause] Maybe.

However, even though my paranoid mom wanted to get in on the ethnic funding, I'm a little put-off that an actual university (and not a guidance/career counselor or a parent) would suggest, in a rather blase' way, ferreting out any and all money-grubbing sources you can find. I can understand them expecting you to pay your own way and highlighting funding options outside of their loans but there are more...euphemistic ways to say such things.

Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.


(This post was edited by Arkinese on Mar 7, 2007, 5:08 PM)


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 7, 2007, 4:47 PM

Post #130 of 430 (7961 views)
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Re: [Arkinese] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Yeah, actually usually the preps don't say what they really mean in quite such an open and tacky way. I think I mentioned the guy who said, during a discussion of The N word "I just learned not to use it because it would offend the maid."

I was told I was "African American" just about every day. I'm not sure if black people had the same experience, or if I was being put in my place. I grew up in white suburbs, but it was my first experience with that level of privilege, entitlement and extreme discomfort with minorities, exacerbated by strict taboos around expressing such directly or, heaven forfend, talking about money. Columbia is one of the more surreal places I've ever spent any time and I lived on the corner of Haight and Ashbury when Jerry Garcia died and it seemed the pachouli cloud would never lift.


(This post was edited by tenderloner on Mar 7, 2007, 5:01 PM)


duchess919


Mar 7, 2007, 6:07 PM

Post #131 of 430 (7922 views)
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Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

It's not only Columbia. New York City just placed a 'symbolic ban' on the 'n-word'--talk about hegemonic po-mo neo-oppression...


libbyagain


Mar 7, 2007, 6:12 PM

Post #132 of 430 (7919 views)
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Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

I'm sooooo totally not capable of inserting myself into this discussion, but I find it totally fascinating, and can't really help chiming in.

First, I think, based on my experiences teaching in various colleges, it's definitely true that where there's not funding, there's not pressure to have it. For many reasons--including, sometimes principally, that there's been no one willing to spearhead the effort to GET that funding: maybe at the risk of putting a career or two at risk, or otherwise upsetting various equillibria, that are so-far "working." If a school as well-endowed as Columbia has not yet chosen to fund its graduate MFA students in a way that can possibly and reliably make sense for those students--well, that program hasn't yet reached critical mass to make decisions to DO so. My bet is, they probably will--and perhaps soonish, but there may be some need of some major negative PR to force them to do so. Maybe some confident faculty will put careers on the line to do so, knowing they'll be retained anyway. Why haven't they, yet? Well. . . critical mass. .. tipping points. . . the need to shake the cage of the status quo, because it's definitely not working. So long as many/most MFA'ers at Columbia who don't get funding nonetheless suck it up and take out loans, or whatever, and don't militate major shake-em-up Daddy/Mommy Warbuckses to shake-shake-shake. . . probably nothing will change too quickly.

As for affirmative action, and grants.scholarships.whatever based on ethnicity. . . or, WHATever. . . in my experience, that's the state of being. Truly, I WISH I'd paid attention to my own mother, who felt sure (and she was right!) that she could help me get scholarship based on being (get this) of freaking SWISS lineage. Because, truly, there WAS such help (a modicum of it) e'en two decades ago--which I didn't avail myself of, finding it a cheap trick, because I thought my amazing intellect would suffice. Which it did--to a degree. But those undergraduate LOANS!! OUCH!!

I am a person who has a weird professional history. Maybe "weird," and maybe "more or less normal" (time will reveal somewhat of the truth, as it usually does): in that, in a field heavily impacted by cut-backs (English lit) at the post-secondary level, affirmative action has distinctly meant four jobs that I did not get--and I was told this point-blank. I do not argue, necessarily, with this-all. I do think that colleges that presume to teach the full spectrum of American students need to be represented by faculty who are akin to students, who share their experiences, and, yes, ethnicities. Not to say I don't think the specifics of "how" are not totally horrifically difficult to determine. But I DO think that, in this impacted era, of all sorts of down-sizing and out-sourcing and various other reasons why folks who are fabulous end up disenfranchised, TAKE WHATEVER RESOURCE IS OFFERED--ethnicity-based? TAKE it!! Gender-based? TAKE it!! TAKE IT, in whatever shape it offers. . . SNATCH IT UP!!

As for NYC, and extreme privilege that may rear its head at Columbia and elsewhere. . . I haven't a clue. All I know is, we live in an era when the gulf between rich and poor, however those two quotients is defined, is larger than it has ever ever been--larger, statistically, than even the gulf between rich and poor in feudal Germany, at its WORST divide. So. .. whatever it takes to bridge that gulf, if it's available, TAKE it!!

Tenderloner, I was struck by your comment, somewhere back, that many may "prostitute" themselves, in today's NYC. I have a tremendous friend, whose gorgeous daughter, today in NYC, is. . . basically doing that. I am chilled to the bone to consider said daughter. My husband, who was an actor in NYC for several years, says, "tish-tosh. . . that's the way of the world, there. . . was when I was there, too. . . "

NOT ACCEPTABLE!! Just . . .NOT. "But. . .she's dating the manager of the Rangers, and calls me all thrilled to tell me what she's discovered of his salary. . . "

Well, I'm definitely out of my depth, here. So, g'bye, and GOOD luck!!

Elizabeth


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 7, 2007, 6:39 PM

Post #133 of 430 (7904 views)
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Re: [libbyagain] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm sooooo totally not capable of inserting myself into this discussion, but I find it totally fascinating, and can't really help chiming in.


Elizabeth, thanks for your thoughts, you actually had a lot of interesting and thoughtful things to say.


Quote
As for affirmative action, and grants.scholarships.whatever based on ethnicity. . . or, WHATever. . . in my experience, that's the state of being. Truly, I WISH I'd paid attention to my own mother, who felt sure (and she was right!) that she could help me get scholarship based on being (get this) of freaking SWISS lineage.


The rub is, I think that the first time I went to college, I refused all ethnicity-based aid. I hadn't grown up poor, am less than half black and felt like a fraud. But it didn't matter, as students resented me anyway and accused me of only being there due to Affirmative Action. Oddly enough, it was a 2nd-tier state school that didn't even require SAT scores (of which mine were in the 4 digit range, rare at my high school). Given that I didn't finish college the first time around due to lack of funding, I did take a minority scholarship. If I was going to be accused anyway, I might as well just take the aid. There was no other way I knew of to pay for it (more on that later). I also liked that "underrepresented group" was only one requirement. That way, my poor and first generation college student first cousins would not be excluded because they were white (not that they are applying to Columbia, but in principle).


Quote
a field heavily impacted by cut-backs (English lit) at the post-secondary level, affirmative action has distinctly meant four jobs that I did not get--and I was told this point-blank. I do not argue, necessarily, with this-all. I do think that colleges that presume to teach the full spectrum of American students need to be represented by faculty


Again, that's why I initially resisted such aid. How many times I'd heard the "unqualified minority" tale of woe from someone who felt they were passed over for a minority. Not saying that is how you put it, quite the opposite. But that you were told this creates resentment toward minorities and the perception of minority = less qualified. It's not like there aren't plenty of qualified minorities, so that's a lazy and cynical approach. Indeed, one of the great surprises at Columbia was that I befriended more black people than I ever had before in my life. I just did not have much interaction with blacks outside of one side of the family. And they were very different from most blacks I encountered before Columbia. In particular, I made a lot of black women friends, which has been invaluable.


Quote
Tenderloner, I was struck by your comment, somewhere back, that many may "prostitute" themselves, in today's NYC.

Yes, I meant it euphemistically (and specific to Columbia, but I've since seen the ads on Craig's List). Last night I discovered one of my peers was a gay porn star and male prostitute prior to, and possibly while a student at Columbia. In a way, that's more honest than the pretty girl in the MFA program dating the older man she doesn't love, but for his wallet. I know it happens all the time, I guess I just chose such a school to meet a better quality of people (intellectually), but too often encountered the dregs of humanity, in terms of morals.


(This post was edited by tenderloner on Mar 7, 2007, 6:47 PM)


Alexland
Alexander Landfair

Mar 20, 2007, 3:28 PM

Post #134 of 430 (7776 views)
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New Columbians? Can't Post

Has anyone gotten anything in the mail from Columbia?


onlooker


Mar 21, 2007, 8:02 PM

Post #135 of 430 (7719 views)
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Re: [Alexland] New Columbians? Can't Post

No, I'm still waiting, though I was admitted by phone on March 1st. Granted, I'm abroad at the moment and asked them to forward any mail to me here.


Alexland
Alexander Landfair

Mar 22, 2007, 11:52 PM

Post #136 of 430 (7650 views)
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Re: [onlooker] New Columbians? Can't Post

so you applied for fiction or poetry? I applied for poetry and was contacted on the 9th


onlooker


Mar 22, 2007, 11:58 PM

Post #137 of 430 (7649 views)
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Re: [Alexland] New Columbians? Can't Post

Fiction. I'm pretty sure I'll take the offer. Bashing Columbia's apparently quite trendy these days, but I still think it's a great program; it was always my first choice. Plus I already live in New York :) How about you?


Alexland
Alexander Landfair

Mar 23, 2007, 11:23 AM

Post #138 of 430 (7605 views)
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Re: [onlooker] New Columbians? Can't Post

yeah its worth it. I'm sure ill accept their offer as soon as i get the packet in the mail. So i guess ill see you next semsester.


jonathandavid



Mar 23, 2007, 5:32 PM

Post #139 of 430 (7566 views)
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How many waitiisted per concentration? Can't Post

I heard back from Columbia a few days ago (applied for the poetry concentration) by mail, notifying me that I have been waitlisted; anyone know how many folks (they said it was a short list--wonder what they mean by short) are waitlisted per concentration?


onlooker


Mar 24, 2007, 8:47 AM

Post #140 of 430 (7524 views)
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Re: [Alexland] New Columbians? Can't Post

alexland... right on!


jonathandavid... sorry I have no idea :(


decemberist


Mar 24, 2007, 10:01 AM

Post #141 of 430 (7517 views)
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Re: [Alexland] New Columbians? Can't Post

In and going for poetry. Nothing in the mail yet either.


jobieh
Jobie Hughes

Mar 28, 2007, 12:23 PM

Post #142 of 430 (7450 views)
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Re: [decemberist] New Columbians? Can't Post

So apparently the packets have arrived (at least for one, though I'm still waiting for mine), and I was wondering if anyone has received the financial award packet yet?

Signed,
Stressed in Chicago


bighark


Mar 28, 2007, 12:57 PM

Post #143 of 430 (7437 views)
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Re: [jobieh] New Columbians? Can't Post

Hey Jobie,

You can tack on three extra days for anything sent through the Chicago Post office.

I got a letter--FROM CHICAGO--that took five days to arrive (Delivered March 26 with a March 22 postmark). This letter traveled from Lincoln Park to Lincoln Square--maybe three miles, tops.

Don't get too worried just yet.


perne6
Ruchika

Mar 28, 2007, 1:17 PM

Post #144 of 430 (7425 views)
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Re: [bighark] New Columbians? Can't Post

Straying a little off topic here . . .what does everyone think about Zadie Smith as visiting professor next year? I guess this means I finally should read her...


harja


Mar 28, 2007, 1:25 PM

Post #145 of 430 (7420 views)
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Re: [perne6] New Columbians? Can't Post

You'd be better off just reading the stuff she mimics.


jobieh
Jobie Hughes

Mar 28, 2007, 3:31 PM

Post #146 of 430 (7391 views)
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Re: [harja] New Columbians? Can't Post

Bighark, you are definitely right. The inner workings of the Chicago Post Office reminds me of the intestinal tract of a dog with worms.

Is Zadie Smith going to be a visiting professor next year? That's huge, if so. I'll be the first to admit that she does mimic, as harja writes, but she's a damn good writer nonetheless (if you conveniently ignore The Autograph Man, which I do).

Also, anyone going to the Open House on April 13th?




In Reply To
You'd be better off just reading the stuff she mimics.



(This post was edited by jobieh on Mar 29, 2007, 6:09 PM)


cookie1984


Mar 28, 2007, 6:24 PM

Post #147 of 430 (7358 views)
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richard ford? Can't Post

i'm waitlisted at columbia so don't have a lot of the package info. but i was curious if anyone knows if richard ford is going to stick around, or was he a one year visiting professor type too, like zadie smith will be? he's on the website as being there now. he is a big reason i'm staying on the waitlist.


lili99


Mar 28, 2007, 9:36 PM

Post #148 of 430 (7324 views)
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Re: [jobieh] New Columbians? Can't Post

i got an email inviting me to the open house even though i'm only on the wait list. think i'm gonna go since it's only a 6 subway stops away, but i wonder if it's going to make me feel silly and sad.

is anyone on the wait list going to the open house?


alishein


Mar 29, 2007, 9:56 AM

Post #149 of 430 (7296 views)
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Re: [lili99] New Columbians? Can't Post

I'm on the waitlist and I'm considering going. Even if I don't get in -- I'm curious see how the open house is run and what sorts of things they tell us.


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 29, 2007, 4:25 PM

Post #150 of 430 (7266 views)
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Re: [cookie1984] richard ford? Can't Post

Richard Ford is not a one year deal, he has been at Columbia for a while. That said, last year he only taught one class and this year he only taught one master class. I have no idea if he is doing more next year, but he isn't a major member of the faculty (like say Ben Marcus, Sam Lipsyte, Paul LeFarge or Jaime Manrique who all teach workshops and seminars.)

Gary Stheingart and Rebecca Curtis are both staying around (I think they were one year deals, but now have longer positions) and both are amazing professors.

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