Sign in or Register | Help | Contact Us

Advanced Search

Main Index » Writing and Publishing » MFA Programs
Columbia
You are not signed in. Click here to sign in.
If you are not a member, Register here!
135894 registered users
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 18 Next page Last page  View All


jobieh
Jobie Hughes

Mar 5, 2007, 4:52 PM

Post #101 of 430 (7811 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Hi Seth. I thought your initial post was great, and poignant, which is why I used it in an attempt to fuel discussion from both sides of the spectrum. From the people I have talked to it seems Columbia's program is a one or the other. A lot of people loved it and a lot of people hated it, with little ambivalence in between. It is terribly unfortunate that the funding situation is where it is and it will cause me to struggle more than most, but like you said, when it's all said and done I'll have a degree from Columbia (and I will be reminded of that monthly for the next thirty-five years). Woo-hoo. But whatever. It is the way it is and wishing otherwise won't change it. But I appreciate the candid advice from you, and everyone else who has posted. You guys have stirred and assuaged my anxiety all day, but if anything it lit a fire under my ass to get started now on funding and I know it is possible even with my dismal bank account. It won't be easy, but in the end I'll be better for it (kind of like reading Ulysses).

--Jobie


blueragtop


Mar 5, 2007, 5:14 PM

Post #102 of 430 (7799 views)
Shortcut
Post deleted by melos

 


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 5, 2007, 5:51 PM

Post #103 of 430 (7783 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

As ever, Seth says it better. Jobie, please accept my apologies if you took anything I said as pooping on your dream. If anything, I agree again with Seth that my concern is that Columbia robs itself of tremendous talent because of the expense, especially at SOA, which has less aid than Columbia College or Law, for example. I would hate to see someone talented enough to get in not be able to go (especially given Jobie's gutsy gambit!).

As I said privately, going to Columbia was the best of times and the worst of times. I encountered a greater concentration of tremendously brilliant, talented, inspiring people than I ever have before in one place, many of whom I hope to carry with me throughout my years. Because of my difficulties, I was also able to help many other people get in and stay in to finish their degrees and also know they were not alone in their financial and bureaucratic struggles.

As has been pointed out, Jobie, you have almost 6 months to get funding squared away, I had 3.5 weeks (a series of bureaucratic snafus lead to my admission being delayed by over a year) and I leapt at the Ivy dream. I would not advise doing such on that kind of notice, but I had lost funding elsewhere and did not want to interrupt my education yet again. I have seen many others crushed because they dreamed of this for so long and it was always funding and bureaucracy that got in their way.


gcsumfa


Mar 5, 2007, 6:02 PM

Post #104 of 430 (7777 views)
Shortcut
Re: [melos] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

nm


(This post was edited by gcsumfa on Mar 5, 2007, 11:20 PM)


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 6, 2007, 8:09 PM

Post #105 of 430 (7710 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jobieh] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


Quote

Anything at all you can offer up is greatly appreciated. And also, is it possible (and by possible I mean realistic) to go there without funding and without being independently wealthy? Also, what has the experience been like? If you could do it over again would you? Is the financial burden so great as to diminish an otherwise top program?


I've said this a couple times, but if we push aside funding for one second I'd say Columbia has the best program, at least for my taste (by which I mean, the faculty is incredible but also diverse and eccentric in a way that appeals to me). The quality of writing here is very high, being in NYC is fantastic, the publication history is one of the best, etc.

My experience, beyond funding, has been overwhelmingly positive. I haven't even had a single class that dissapointed me yet (except one 4 sesson master class0 and have honestly loved all my teachers.

Is the financial burden so great as to diminish the program? I think that it obviously diminishes it to some degree, for I think it would be easily the top program if the funding was great, but I don't think it dims it out of the top 15 programs. Like funding for undergrad or any financial consideration, it depends on the circumstances. If you are already in debt form undergrad and going for poetry does it make sense? maybe not. If you are debt free and can get some outside funding maybe it will. I wish the funding was better, but I have no regrets so far.

There are just a few things I'd like to say in response to the post you quoted.

A) While this does not excuse Columbia, it is quite false to pretend that Columbia is virtually the only program with bad funding. Tom Kealey estimated that about 1/3 of the programs have little to no funding. THat includes the other good NYC schools (New School and NYU) and many other quality programs.

B) 110,000 dollars of debt is a pretty inflated number. I guess you might need that much debt if you went to Columbia and lived in an expensive apartment and didn't get any funding from Columbia or outside Columbia and you never worked a day in thsoe two years. But I'd think most people would at the very least be working during the summers and many work part-time during the school year.

C) The claim that Columbia's program doesn't "intend to change a damn thing" is a total lie.
One of the main problems is that there has been no real dean of the school of the arts for the past couple years which has really hurt fundraising for the whole school of the arts, but more to the point Ben Marcus (new writing division head) has been putting a lot of effort into fixing the funding problems. Don't know if that will help you going in this year (or me next year) or not, but it is changing.


jobieh
Jobie Hughes

Mar 6, 2007, 8:30 PM

Post #106 of 430 (7696 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Ahh Clench, there you are. I've been waiting for you to jump in the conversation. The funding is a real pisser, but so what. I'm coming and I'm excited as hell about it and I think it's going to be the best damn two years of my life. I assure you, I will make use of every opportunity I can. Anyways, do you have any tips that might make this a little easier transition for me? I don't have funding as of now, but am looking for it. Do you recommend living in graduate housing on campus? Anything at all? And I appreciate the candid response you have given. I get freaked out one minute about the debt and then confident that it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The truth, I'm sure, lies somewhere in the middle of my overreactions. But no matter. I remember you said before you had 12,500 in scholarship money. Was it hard to make up the difference to pay the rest? Anyways, it was good to see your name finally pop up in response. Thanks in advance for any further help you can give me. Alan Ziegler was the one who called me and the one I've been corresponding with since. He has been very helpful too...

--Jobie


In Reply To

Quote

Anything at all you can offer up is greatly appreciated. And also, is it possible (and by possible I mean realistic) to go there without funding and without being independently wealthy? Also, what has the experience been like? If you could do it over again would you? Is the financial burden so great as to diminish an otherwise top program?


I've said this a couple times, but if we push aside funding for one second I'd say Columbia has the best program, at least for my taste (by which I mean, the faculty is incredible but also diverse and eccentric in a way that appeals to me). The quality of writing here is very high, being in NYC is fantastic, the publication history is one of the best, etc.

My experience, beyond funding, has been overwhelmingly positive. I haven't even had a single class that dissapointed me yet (except one 4 sesson master class0 and have honestly loved all my teachers.

Is the financial burden so great as to diminish the program? I think that it obviously diminishes it to some degree, for I think it would be easily the top program if the funding was great, but I don't think it dims it out of the top 15 programs. Like funding for undergrad or any financial consideration, it depends on the circumstances. If you are already in debt form undergrad and going for poetry does it make sense? maybe not. If you are debt free and can get some outside funding maybe it will. I wish the funding was better, but I have no regrets so far.

There are just a few things I'd like to say in response to the post you quoted.

A) While this does not excuse Columbia, it is quite false to pretend that Columbia is virtually the only program with bad funding. Tom Kealey estimated that about 1/3 of the programs have little to no funding. THat includes the other good NYC schools (New School and NYU) and many other quality programs.

B) 110,000 dollars of debt is a pretty inflated number. I guess you might need that much debt if you went to Columbia and lived in an expensive apartment and didn't get any funding from Columbia or outside Columbia and you never worked a day in thsoe two years. But I'd think most people would at the very least be working during the summers and many work part-time during the school year.

C) The claim that Columbia's program doesn't "intend to change a damn thing" is a total lie.
One of the main problems is that there has been no real dean of the school of the arts for the past couple years which has really hurt fundraising for the whole school of the arts, but more to the point Ben Marcus (new writing division head) has been putting a lot of effort into fixing the funding problems. Don't know if that will help you going in this year (or me next year) or not, but it is changing.



umass76


Mar 6, 2007, 8:59 PM

Post #107 of 430 (7677 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jobieh] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Jobie,

Hi again. From the Columbia MFA website:

Tuition for 2003-2004 is $33,000. The estimated total per year, including materials and living expenses, is $50,000.

But here Columbia fools us again. Here's their updated figure, also from the website:

Tuition and fees total $36,788 for the 2006-2007 academic year (two semesters).

So if tuition increases by $3,788 per year, with inflation for your living expenses, that $50,000 per year figure would be $110,000 over two years. That's where my figure came from.

Except you have to remember that only covers nine months of living (schools don't create twelve-month budgets). So fully one-quarter of your annual costs, over the course of those twenty-four months, are not included in that $110,000 estimate from Columbia. For that reason, I made a ridiculously optimistic assumption that an additional $10,000 over twenty-four months would get you through living for six months (three summer months for each of two years) in the most expensive and densely-populated city in the United States. I then assumed a $10,000/year part-time job. Voila: we're back to that $110,000 figure. I wholly agree, however, that if Columbia offers you (or anyone) what appears to be their max or close-to-max grant award--$12,500 per year--that $110,000 would actually be, instead, a paltry $85,000. It's true, also, that if you were to work close to full time while going to Columbia (which many submit would destroy the experience, and which posters who've been to Columbia info sessions say the school does not recommend) you might be able to reduce your two-year debt burden from, say, $85,000 to more like $55,000. If Columbia gives a prospective student no aid whatsoever (as, it appears, does happen), either the prospective student works or he/she goes into the hole for that figure of around $110,000.

There are definitely other programs with bad funding; if you look at The Kealey Scale on my website, you'll find out what some of them are. Generally, schools with bad funding seem to be--and this is my wholly anecdotal opinion--slipping in terms of their prestige. Pitt, for instance, is not now what it was in 1997, before anyone had written a guidebook for MFA students telling them (rightly) how important funding is. The same goes for Maryland, for Utah, and a host of other programs once very, very highly-regarded. Those schools which right now are the most popular in the country (again, anecdotal evidence, and recent polling, seems to suggest)--Cornell, Michigan, Texas, Irvine, Virginia, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, and many other "top forty" programs--all have ridiculously good funding, funding which unfortunately puts Columbia (and those others I mentioned above) to shame.

I think I mentioned that Columbia "seems to" have no intention of changing their stripes, and I think I mentioned that this opinion was based on the website only. Here's what the website has to say about funding at Columbia:

Typically your first year at Columbia will be the hardest financially. Anything you can do now--including working and saving--will pay off exponentially should you be admitted. Since funding for the arts is scarce, it is advised you expand the scope of your search beyond your field of study. Mine your undergraduate institution for resources: alumni association grants, scholarships, financial aid databases, etc. Think of any major corporations you or your relatives have been employed by. Research your family tree for ethnic associations. Many fellowships are awarded based upon your state of birth. Most importantly, DO IT NOW. If you wait until you have been accepted to the program, most application deadlines will have passed. Take advantage of the Columbia cachet before you are admitted; you may be awarded funds provisional upon your acceptance. Financial aid available from the School of the Arts is outlined in detail in the School of the Arts website and on each Division's website as it pertains to their funding abilities. Information on FAFSA can be found below. Please be aware that there are no complete tuition waivers at the School of the Arts, and fellowship opportunities are limited. Teaching assistantships are available and such positions may be paid, but are almost entirely reserved for second year students, and are not a major source of tuition reimbursement for most SoA students. International students are eligible for all fellowships awarded by the School of the Arts. All applicants should be advised that the majority of funding available to you will be in the form of low interest loans.

[Caps in original; underlines are mine].

If that ain't a middle finger, folks, nothing is. If they were planning on changing their stripes soon, they'd take down that ridiculously offensive and condescending FAQ answer.


(This post was edited by umass76 on Mar 6, 2007, 9:03 PM)


jobieh
Jobie Hughes

Mar 6, 2007, 9:19 PM

Post #108 of 430 (7656 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Eh, whatever. Thanks for the response Seth. It's a tough mountain to climb and realistically speaking will probably be too tall a hurdle for me to overcome. But I'm sick of stressing out about it and just have to wait and see. Went to bed about ten last night and didn't fall asleep till after two thinking about this shit. And you are right, it's a big F-U from Columbia and I have a tough time believing it's the best they can do with the resources at their disposal. We shall see. I've been at a coffeehouse since six and have written fifteen hundred words, and, in the grand scheme of things, that's the important thing. I have to quit reading these posts. One minutes I'm through the ceiling and the next flattened. This yo-yo is not a good thing considering I have six months to go (for proof of that read my last post compared to this). Who knows. But thanks for the post...


(This post was edited by jobieh on Mar 6, 2007, 9:21 PM)


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 6, 2007, 9:24 PM

Post #109 of 430 (7651 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

I fail to see what is "ridiculously offensive and condescending" about that FAQ excerpt, especially the parts you underlined. It seems to me like they are giving practical advice on how to look for outside funding so that you can minimize your debt.

"
Since funding for the arts is scarce, it is advised you expand the scope of your search beyond your field of study. Mine your undergraduate institution for resources: alumni association grants, scholarships, financial aid databases, etc. Think of any major corporations you or your relatives have been employed by. Research your family tree for ethnic associations. Many fellowships are awarded based upon your state of birth."

What is offense of condescending that you are underlining there? If you are looking for out of school funding it is simply a fact that funding for the arts is scare and it is true that you will have more luck looking for scholarships that apply to your ethnicity or state of birth. Why is pointing out those facts offensive to you? I really don't see anything offenensive or condescending in anything you posted (unless you are just offended by the notion that an MFA program wouldnt' have funding, which I can understand)


Quote
If they were planning on changing their stripes soon, they'd take down that

I'd also point out that you are quoting from the FAQ for the entire School of the Arts, not the Writing program, which is what I said was working to change its funding situation.... I have no idea what the situation is over in Film or Theater or what not.


Quote
Columbia and I have a tough time believing it's the best they can do with the resources at their disposal.


As with, I'd assume, all the programs with less than stellar funding, Columbia University could easily do better. But that doesn't mean that the writing division itself could do better. Funding problems are normally a resault of the upper management, not the teachers involved with the specific programs. I say this only to point out that the bad funding situations at various schools never means that the teachers themselves enjoy it and if a University's attitude towards X or Y bugs you don't assume that the people involved in X or Y will share that attitude.



(This post was edited by Clench Million on Mar 6, 2007, 9:35 PM)


umass76


Mar 6, 2007, 9:52 PM

Post #110 of 430 (7635 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Clench,
I don't want to fight, so I'll just answer your question as directly as I can:

1) Saying that "funding for the arts is scarce" is a cop-out, as (to me) that grammar implies that Columbia feels funding for the arts is generally scarce--or else they would have said, "funding for the arts is scarce at Columbia." Obviously funding for the arts isn't generally scarce (look at the other top programs), so if they meant that, they're being disingenuous or even downright inaccurate. If, instead, they mean to say that funding for the arts is scarce at Columbia, I still find the phrasing inexcusably evasive, as the very reason they won't add "at Columbia" to that sentence is because a) it would make the school look bad, and b) it would force the "arts" folks at Columbia to take direct responsibility for the fact that they haven't been able to pry a few million dollars out of the hands of the Trustees, who oversee an endowment of, what, a few billion? I don't see how any graduate school has the right to expect to be well-regarded in its field when it doesn't support its graduate students financially. Undergrad, different story: but Columbia can't just willfully ignore the MFA and PhD. culture in academia today, which says that those degrees should be free or close to it.

2) The FAQ's suggestions for students (in terms of finding funding) are offensive, largely because they're so ham-handedly inapplicable (to most students that is; at least 80%) that it doesn't feel they were trying very hard to come up with solutions for the problem that they created. What if my parents are retired, or schoolteachers, and not businesspeople--so there aren't any "corporate" scholarships available on the basis proposed by Columbia? What if I'm white, or from Massachusetts--do the recommendations apply (or even try to apply) to me then, where "ethnic associations" and "state of birth" grants are concerned? What if I went to a community college, or graduated from college a decade ago--do you think I can still "mine my undergraduate" school for funds? It ridiculous, but what's worse is that I feel Columbia is savvy enough--and I give them that much credit here--to know it's ridiculous. Clearly they just don't care that it's ridiculous. Yet even here, again, they're being evasive; they don't want to admit the obvious (until the very last two sentences of the FAQ) which is, in paraphrase: "you're going to have to borrow more than $100,000 to come here, sorry pal." I'd respect them a lot more--and they'd be respecting their incoming students a lot more--if they just leveled with them without all the patronizing "DO IT NOW" (caps in original) suggestions about obscure funding streams.

S.


(This post was edited by umass76 on Mar 6, 2007, 9:54 PM)


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 6, 2007, 10:06 PM

Post #111 of 430 (7623 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

I'm not sure why you have such an obsession with Columbia. You spend more time taking pot-shots at it here and on your website than you do talking about any other program. It really strikes me as odd. If the stuff was really so offensive you could just leave it at that and wouldn't need to write an essay to convince everyone....

1) Yes, funding for the arts is relatively scare. Again, I will point out that you are quoting the FAQ for the ENTIRE school of the arts. It is NOT the FAQ for the writing program. As such, waving your hand and mentioning how there are a lot of top writing programs with good funding (which normally means not funding as much as TAships/jobs [which is awesome, but not free money like they are talking about here]) doesn't have that much to do with this.

Do most schools fully fund their film programs for example? Do most theater programs have TAships? I am not sure, but unless they all do, your argument is silly.

2) It seems you like you are REALLY reaching for straws to take more pot shots at columbia. What if you are white from Mass? So what if you are? Does that mean it is "offensive" if Columbia points out (correctly) that there are lots of scholarship opportunities for minorities? (Although FWIW, you can find, for some odd reason, lots of scholarships based on state of birth. Even Mass.)
You don't think their funding ideas have enough thought? Jebus dude, you are just quoting a quick paragraph response that is meant to be short and general enough to apply to all the programs within the school of the arts. That one paragraph on the website is not the be-all end-all of Columbia's advice for funding. They give you a fucking book on it. If you expected a legnthy essay on how to fund your graduate experience on a FAQ webpage I don't know what to say.


(This post was edited by Clench Million on Mar 6, 2007, 10:09 PM)


umass76


Mar 6, 2007, 10:26 PM

Post #112 of 430 (7610 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Clench,
I respect your school spirit. But I'm the sort who'll be quick to criticize even my own alma maters (Dartmouth, Harvard) if/when I see the need.
S.


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 6, 2007, 10:32 PM

Post #113 of 430 (7604 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Ah, the Columbia debate rages on. Prior to this thread, I'd never heard anything bad about the program itself, but when I asked about money they acted like I was from another planet (which, I guess I am, Earth). However, I still contend that if you can't pay for it, that's a pretty major problem.

Also, the living expenses are not realistic. I know few who can live in NYC for $1500 a month, though it can be done. A typical CU student share (1 BR in a 2 or 3 BR apt, including internet and utilities), was about $7800 last year. It's possible to find a roommate share for less, but generally you sacrifice in neighborhood, distance, etc. Again, the feasibility of this all depends on what else you're balancing (jobs).

In Reply To
you were to work close to full time while going to Columbia (which many submit would destroy the experience, and which posters who've been to Columbia info sessions say the school does not recommend)

It was phrased more strongly than that. The working folks in their slacks and button downs who had rushed all the way the fuck up to Columbia kept asking about money. Ben Marcus said something very Columbialike, along the lines of "if you can't commit ... it's not for you" in response to the question of whether or not it was possible to work full time. He said the program is too rigorous. It looks like the classes are scheduled mid-morning, afternoon and evening -- anyone in the program care to comment on how possible it is to isolate classes in order to maximize work hours?


you might be able to reduce your two-year debt burden from, say, $85,000 to more like $55,000. If Columbia gives a prospective student no aid whatsoever (as, it appears, does happen), either the prospective student works or he/she goes into the hole for that figure of around $110,000.


Also, one thing I don't understand about the Columbia program is the number of units per course, some were 4 and 6 units each, for about 30 per year. NYU, for example is 32 credits for two years, for about $34k total. The same types of classes, for example workshops, were fewer credits at NYU.

I'd like to know who can save $85k in the 9 months or so between application to attendance (even if they had previous savings). I only know 2 people in the program, one I'm not sure how she affords it, though she does work PT in the program and has for some time, beginning as an undergrad, through which she has freelance connections. The other has a wealthy father and a boyfriend whose only quality she ever mentioned to me was a six figure income. I very sincerely would love to hear specifics for how regular, working people come up with these kinds of funds (are you filling in the gaps with private loans or are you just smart about generating money?). Did you really come up with it through outside scholarships, alumni associations and the employers of yourself and all your relatives? Heck, if I get into a moderately priced program, but without enough funding, I could use this advice! (Feel free to PM me on that issue.)



Clench Million
Charles

Mar 6, 2007, 10:37 PM

Post #114 of 430 (7598 views)
Shortcut
Re: [umass76] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Whatever you say. I guess I just don't understand why when I correct something I see in a post (which I had no idea was yours, the author wasn't quoted) because I have actual information, you feel the need to turn it into a big essay on how you arrived at your conclusion that funding wasn't changing since you somehow found the phrasing offensive on a FAQ page that isn't even operated by the writing program.

I was posting, for people interested and since I have some inside information being in the program, that Ben Marcus has been working hard to get more funding and the situation should be improving. I don't think much needs to be said beyond that unless someone has contrary information.


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 6, 2007, 10:45 PM

Post #115 of 430 (7588 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


Quote
I know few who can live in NYC for $1500 a month, though it can be done. A typical CU student share (1 BR in a 2 or 3 BR apt, including internet and utilities), was about $7800 last year.


I think you got an extra zero in there ;). Columbia stuent shares are ~700 a month, not 7,800.


Quote
anyone in the program care to comment on how possible it is to isolate classes in order to maximize work hours?


I'd say it is very easy. Beyond your workshop (from which you normally have 4 or 5 options) you have no strict requirement, so you can take whatever combination of other class, seminars and lectures you want and since the program is a large one there are tons of classes. I consolidated all my classes to 2 days a week this semester, no problem.

I agree with that Marcus quote that, I at least, would find having a full time job and attending Columbia (or any MFA program) to be pretty hard. But it isn't much of a chore to work a part-time job, say 10-20 hours or however many hours you would be working as a TA at another school. Most people seem to be working some time of part-time job or doing an internship here.


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 6, 2007, 11:04 PM

Post #116 of 430 (7571 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


Quote
I think you got an extra zero in there ;). Columbia stuent shares are ~700 a month, not 7,800.


Yep, mixed the monthly and annual figures. Oops. And I got hosed, my first assignment was a dorm room at $7500 for 2003-04.


Quote
I'd say it is very easy. Beyond your workshop (from which you normally have 4 or 5 options) you have no strict requirement, so you can take whatever combination of other class, seminars and lectures you want and since the program is a large one there are tons of classes. I consolidated all my classes to 2 days a week this semester, no problem.


That's useful information. I don't know many jobs I could work 3 days a week, but if I could go a few partial days, that's something.


Quote
I agree with that Marcus quote that, I at least, would find having a full time job and attending Columbia (or any MFA program) to be pretty hard. But it isn't much of a chore to work a part-time job, say 10-20 hours or however many hours you would be working as a TA at another school. Most people seem to be working some time of part-time job or doing an internship here.


There's the rub. The program is both rigorous and expensive (not to mention the expense of it's location). As I learned as an undergrad, I can't pay NYC rent on a 20 hr/week job. Trying to do so drove my hourly wage down to levels it had not been since the early '90s. I'd need to find something that was very, very flexible in terms of hours, but still paid a decent wage. That's tough. Not impossible, but tough.

Thanks for the info. Luckily, Columbia didn't like my writing, anyway.


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 6, 2007, 11:12 PM

Post #117 of 430 (7565 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


Quote

That's useful information. I don't know many jobs I could work 3 days a week, but if I could go a few partial days, that's something.


I guess I should also say that, agian due to the variety and amount of classes offered, it should not be too hard to get all your classes at night if you were so inclined. There are a few classes that start at 10 or 11, but most are more like 4 or 5 and there are enough classes after 5 that you could probably have them all at night if you needed.


mingram
Mike Ingram

Mar 6, 2007, 11:26 PM

Post #118 of 430 (7556 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Look: Columbia is expensive. Some people are willing to pay for it. Others are not.

I think that pretty well covers the territory of this debate, yes?

I liked the fact that while I was in grad school, my free time was spent drinking PBRs on my neighbor's porch, or watching Netflix movies while smelling my own farts. But if I'd wanted to go to a more expensive school badly enough, I could have found a part-time job to help pay for it, and it wouldn't have ruined my lifestyle. Right now I'm teaching 4 classes, doing some freelance work, and still finding time to work on my novel.

God, I can't believe I just defended Columbia. I think they're supposed to be like the Jets to Iowa's Sharks, or something. Clench and I should be dance-fighting.


tenderloner
Geary'n Hyde

Mar 6, 2007, 11:40 PM

Post #119 of 430 (7551 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Clench Million] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


Quote
I guess I should also say that, agian due to the variety and amount of classes offered, it should not be too hard to get all your classes at night if you were so inclined. There are a few classes that start at 10 or 11, but most are more like 4 or 5 and there are enough classes after 5 that you could probably have them all at night if you needed.


That is helpful to know (for the hardworking Jobie). Moot for me, since I'm presumably rejected. :)

I meant to mention in my previous post that if NYU and Hunter can get fellowships for their students ($20k NY Times fellowship with matching tuition from NYU, $5 and $10k fellowships at Hunter), the Columbia name could bring in the same kind of funds. I know Marcus is new, but why wasn't that on the radar long before? The fact that it wasn't thought of is what troubles me. Though of course, moot again.

Edited to say:
As someone already pointed out to Jobie, there are ways. Like being a porn star and escort. Lordy, why didn't I think of that?

Edited again to say:
If anyone follows the link, it's extremely NSFW. Images don't always load in Firefox on my laptop at home, so I didn't realize they were there. And graphic. My apologies.


(This post was edited by tenderloner on Mar 7, 2007, 1:44 PM)


__________



Mar 7, 2007, 5:13 AM

Post #120 of 430 (7518 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

Holy shit!

No one's commented on this:

Research your family tree for ethnic associations!

Anyone else find this hilarious? Like, what, my great-grandfather was half Cherokee, so maybe if I toss some Miracle-Gro on our family tree, lie to the right committee, I could get me some funding?

Could your family tree also be hiding Mexicans? Our students have many, many options!

:P


six five four three two one 0 ->

(This post was edited by Junior Maas on Mar 7, 2007, 5:15 AM)


ajholtz


Mar 7, 2007, 5:57 AM

Post #121 of 430 (7512 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Junior Maas] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

don't know why i feel the need to enter the debate, as i've no ties to columbia whatsoever and don't plan to apply there (i might have something useful to say, give me a second)
jobie - congrats - don't let anyone pull down the effect of your accomplishment, because getting into columbia is a grand one. you should be proud of yourself.

doesn't it strike you as odd that an ivy league school with some very very wealthy alums and probably a very healthy annual donation budget has so little to give? i don't know how much undergrad is there (i went to a very expensive private liberal arts school, debt is sucky) but how, HOW can they justify their astronomical fees? perhaps the faculty is just worth that much more, or maybe the rental space for their classrooms, or maybe all the free pencils they'll have to give out to their writing students when they break or lose erasers.

my point (i think i have one): maybe they like to charge that much. maybe they think it gives them distinction and therefore weeds out the meek and unballsy. unfortunately, with that kind of tuition coming in, they don't need to worry about people not applying because of the price, there's always some rich kid billy madison quite happy to spend their parents money garnering superfluous degrees. maybe they say they'll change, but why would they? that money is going somewhere and there's a lot of it...


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 7, 2007, 9:55 AM

Post #122 of 430 (7468 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tenderloner] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


Quote
I meant to mention in my previous post that if NYU and Hunter can get fellowships for their students ($20k NY Times fellowship with matching tuition from NYU, $5 and $10k fellowships at Hunter), the Columbia name could bring in the same kind of funds. I know Marcus is new, but why wasn't that on the radar long before? The fact that it wasn't thought of is what troubles me.


Well Columbia DOES have fellowships around those ranges. I have one myself. Don't know how many they do, but I think the deal is that even 5-20K isn't that much when compared to the amount you might get from Cornell or UVA. But they do have some funding.


Clench Million
Charles

Mar 7, 2007, 10:14 AM

Post #123 of 430 (7450 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ajholtz] Literary Reponse? Can't Post

I think "they" charge that much because it isn't something on the beaurocracy's radar or something they care that much about. Here is the deal with Columbia as I undestand it. There is one tuition for Columbia, it is the same at all the departments. Different programs are not allowed to pick different tuitions for their students (I think this is the same at most universities). So how do most of these programs get people free tuition? Well either by getting free money fellowships from donors and such or, most commonly, by making the students workers by hiring them as TAs.

So why can't a big rich university like Columbia do the same thing? Well, here is the problem, Columbia does not currently HAVE a creative writing undergrad program. The SOA is given a few spots to TA undergrad english classes, but the vast majority of those spots are owned by the english PhD program.

So that is what is crippling Columbia's funding, the lack of a creative writing undergrad program.


HopperFu


Mar 7, 2007, 10:17 AM

Post #124 of 430 (7447 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mingram] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


In Reply To
Clench and I should be dance-fighting.


I would pay HUGE money, like $5, to see Mike and Clench dance-fight. Seriously. First one of us to give a high-profile reading somewhere should insist on a dance-fight. I'd totally do a dance fight as long as I get to be the one with the feathered hair.


Moonshade


Mar 7, 2007, 10:52 AM

Post #125 of 430 (7416 views)
Shortcut
Re: [HopperFu] Literary Reponse? Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Clench and I should be dance-fighting.


I would pay HUGE money, like $5, to see Mike and Clench dance-fight. Seriously. First one of us to give a high-profile reading somewhere should insist on a dance-fight. I'd totally do a dance fight as long as I get to be the one with the feathered hair.


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 18 Next page Last page  View All

Main Index » Writing and Publishing » MFA Programs

 


P&W Newsletters

Sign up to receive our monthly email newsletter to stay informed of the latest news, events and more.

Click to Sign Up

Subscribe to P&W Magazine | Donate Now | Advertise | Sign up for E-Newsletter | About Us | Contact Us

© Copyright Poets & Writers 2011. All Rights Reserved